5,000 tents discarded

[Oracles]

Tatting seems to be becoming part of the main stream now, like the Rabbit Hole and other once secret venues.

As I have stated, this year and the last have been very different to the previous yrs with regards to tatting, ive seen alot of people being bollocked by police and security, even carted off but for silly stuff like discarded gas stoves.

What really took the piss was when a security guy told me that they will go out together on the Monday in their high viz, even when not on a shift and go around watching the best tatters gather up the alcohol and then nab them for it and take it back to their compound in one of the Landies!

[DeanoL]

I have spoken to one of the managers of the waste teams and yes it has doubled some years due to the amount of stuff left behind. As for what is factored in to the ticket price I have no idea, not that the ticket takes up much of the cost of the festival. Poor business planning. mmmmmm seems to be a pretty well run business from where I am sitting, they just have to take more money away from good causes. Perhaps you want the price increased so that the people who can't afford it are priced out just so lazy people can carry on as they are.

The old good causes argument again. £2 million is the number bandied around for charitable donations. With 135,000 that's £15 per ticket going to charity. So if you care about not pricing people out, maybe start there? Or maybe start with the big headliners? Get rid of those and we can either reduce the price, or give more money to charity. And does the festival really need a dance village? Imagine how much more money we could give to charity if we got rid of it! I mean surely starving children are more important than dubstep? And so on.

The good causes argument comes out every single time the festival spends money on something someone doesn't like and it's complete bullshit.

Do you really think that this year people left their tents because of the drying out issue?

I get where you're coming from with that as a reason rather than excuse for laziness - and it's not totally invalid but poorly reasoned. Yes you take only a £10 hit now because of your loss of the tent you then need to buy a new one for the next time - it adds up pretty quickly

People can't even be arsed to take them down, so why if there's a place somewhere do you think they'll suddenly be inspired to take it down and pack it up nicely and take it somewhere? What's suddenly going to make folk do that? Did you know they can already kinda do that taking them to the campsite stewards site - it's not official but it's the closest thing to it and I've heard many people say it's official

It's a £10 loss because you can then spend the time working and hence be able to buy another tent, that's accounted for in the maths.

Why would people take them down? It's a psychological thing. The current 'rule' is 'leave no trace'. That means 'pack your tent up and take it home'. People will look at the rule, consider 1) how much effort it will take to comply and 2) the consequences for them and wider consequences if they disobey. They they'll make a decision on whether to follow the rule or disobey (this is the basis of my previous argument - 2) is always roughly the same for everyone, but 1) will vary depending on numerous factors).

If they opt to disobey, they'll simply disobey. At this point, the festival does not encourage any middle ground, so as far as they are concerned, leaving the tent up is no different to taking it down and leaving it somewhere else. Neither behaviour is encouraged, so in the absence of other reasoning people go for the easier option of just leaving it up.

If instead you adopted a 'pack it up, take it or bin it' approach, that changes the mental maths. The effort to comply is much lower (especially, as I said, for many people the total effort isn't in packing the tent up, it's in dealing with it afterwards). Hence people are more likely to comply. Yes, theoretically people could make this same judgement off their own backs anyway, reasoning that it's easier for the festival to deal with packed up tents in one place than left up tents everywhere, but since the festival never presents that as an option, the idea is generally not considered.

And again, since people still aren't getting it, I'm not suggesting these as excuses, I'm suggesting reasoning into why people do this sort of thing, in an attempt to generate an alternative approach that might improve the situation.

Because Leave No Trace is not working, and shouting about it constantly and being angry at people who don't do it is just not going to change that. While it might be the ideal, it's not attainable.

[Sawdusty surfer]

Nice story here, firefighters tatting then selling the tat . Looks like there were some bargains to be had.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-28509827

[giantkatestacks]

I am feeling pretty cheesed off due to bad luck/non labelling. We got our our G tent yesterday, unwrapped it to discover it wasnt ours at all so we must have picked up the wrong bag from the coach station.

Someone else has our beautifully cared for 3 man with porch and we have an inner, two poles and no flysheet for a 2 man. Almost identical bag.

Bugger.

[grumpyhack]

The left behind tents really got to me this year. If you go to a party at someone's house you should neither leave your rubbish behind strewn all over their garden nor nick the belongings of other party goers.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Nice story here, firefighters tatting then selling the tat . Looks like there were some bargains to be had.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-28509827

Maybe the success of that recovery of equipment combined with the altruistic intentions could be expanded up on?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I am feeling pretty cheesed off due to bad luck/non labelling. We got our our G tent yesterday, unwrapped it to discover it wasnt ours at all so we must have picked up the wrong bag from the coach station.

Someone else has our beautifully cared for 3 man with porch and we have an inner, two poles and no flysheet for a 2 man. Almost identical bag.

Bugger.

Ouch!

[LondonTom]

Nice story here, firefighters tatting then selling the tat . Looks like there were some bargains to be had.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-28509827

Good story, but would rather it was publicised widely as it will only lead to more tents being left and I'd guess the reason why the Festival doesn't promote this sort of thing itself, is that if everyone did it. It would be to much of a hassle to have loads of small groups or not enough willing/able to take that amount of tents.

[progue]

Good story, but would rather it was publicised widely as it will only lead to more tents being left and I'd guess the reason why the Festival doesn't promote this sort of thing itself, is that if everyone did it. It would be to much of a hassle to have loads of small groups or not enough willing/able to take that amount of tents.

I suspect a few will be aware that this type of thing goes on...Another reason why the idea that randomers just tatting without clearing it with the festival IS stealing.

[shoptildrop]

I'm sorry but leaving all you sh*t behind is god damn lazy, there is no excuse for it and you should take it home...if you don't want it, can't dry it, store it whatever take it to the tip but don't try and justify leaving it for someone else to clear it up - you're just a lazy sod

If you went camping anywhere else such as official campsites or such not would you leave you sh*t behind - no....so why is it acceptable at a festival? I am always gobsmacked the amount of cr*p people leave, can't be bothered to bag up and pack up grrrrhhhh

[progue]

I'm sorry but leaving all you sh*t behind is god damn lazy, there is no excuse for it and you should take it home...if you don't want it, can't dry it, store it whatever take it to the tip but don't try and justify leaving it for someone else to clear it up - you're just a lazy sod

If you went camping anywhere else such as official campsites or such not would you leave you sh*t behind - no....so why is it acceptable at a festival? I am always gobsmacked the amount of cr*p people leave, can't be bothered to bag up and pack up grrrrhhhh

The trouble is that saying it is wrong and lazy and whatever else really doesn't achieve a great deal.

I'm inclined to agree with a lot of what Deano has to say on this really.

The festival has been going long enough and people have been discarding god knows what on site for long enough for everyone to have a full understanding of the issue.

People are going to leave stuff behind and they will do so because by and large they spend the weekend getting fcuked, usually feel like garbage on Monday morning and pretty much can't be arsed with the hassle of moving shit a couple of miles across site to their car, when it is enough effort to get themselves together enough to get themselves over there.....Them's the facts and that ain't going to change without a significant move on the part of the organisers to do something about it.

Useful initiatives might involve some form of transportation back to the carparks perhaps or localised skips for discarding damaged items such as chairs and gazebos.

Whatever it is...slagging people off doesn't help at all

[frostypaw]

The festival has been going long enough and people have been discarding god knows what on site for long enough for everyone to have a full understanding of the issue.

You should try talking to people at the festival about it, get some data to go on. What you say is fine for regulars, mostly, but I've met people who have gone for years and never strayed from burger/pizza/babylon and not known about the lockups - let alone still under the impression local scout groups came in on monday afternoon and collected all the tents to be sent to africa

People have been making suggestions, but it's fair they're allowed to vent too - it's pretty upsetting if you love the place and slagging off the messy arses can make people feel better

[progue]

Yep I get that venting makes people feel better.

I just think that we need to come to a realisation that the shit left behind is part of the reality of a large scale festival.

For me a festival like Glastonbury can and given its 'green credentials' should choose to try and differentiate itself by the initiatives they adopt to counter the problem.

Love the farm is a wonderful strap line, but it fails to take the issue in hand. Plus it seems to me that leaving no trace and cleaning the site as quickly as possible, means that the organisers themselves may be compromising on being as environmentally friendly as they could / should be. Let's not forget, they are ultimately the ones who are responsible and the ones who benefit financially from the festival continuing to go ahead.

I get that it is not acceptable to just leave your stuff behind. I doubt you'd find anyone who would try to justify it. In fact most people who do leave stuff would likely either be embarrassed or pretend they hadn't if, confronted.

Was this year not an improvement on past years in any case?

There do also appear to be a few, not too widely publicised schemes where people are benefitting from recycling certain items left on site too?

[hulk mike]

Don't really get the whole disposable tent thing, my current festy tent is about 7 years old, went to check it the other day ready for beautiful days - no pegs, one pole split (after lending it to my parents of all people!) quick trip to go outdoors, new pegs, new pole section and a tin of re-waterproofer, now she's as good as new, all for under £15!

[musky]

WOMADers you are simply wonderful. This is a panoramic photo taken of the festival campsite just after the last of you had packed up and gone on your merry way. No sign of a tent left over, or in fact, any rubbish at all. You have taken 'Leave No Trace' to the next level. Massive thank you from the WOMAD Team.

This was posted on Womad's facebook earlier today. Somehow it seems to make the state of the fields at Glastonbury even more depressing.

[giantkatestacks]

I actually think that GFL need to be a bit more militant about it. Yes it will never be a proper leave no trace festival like Womad (amazing shot) or Burning Man but something has to change.

Even though I volunteer to litterpick I think people knowing that it all is going to be cleared during (for the stages) and after (for the campsites) makes people more blase about it. There has been lots of experiments about altruism, community and money and once a transaction is involved, ie people can see that their ticket price pays for litterpicking etc then they lose incentives to do it out of a sense of the right thing to do. I think there should be a community campsite clearance at some point, though I know its hard to enforce or there needs to be penalties for leaving your tent. I.e. steward involvement.

I don't think the status quo should be accepted. If for anything else the landfill amounts threaten the licence.

[grumpyhack]

There has to be a way. Considering the Glastonbury 'ethos' what gets left is shameful.

If you could have some sort of certificate to say that you'd completely cleared your pitch that gave you a headstart for next year's ticket lottery it might help.

Not sure how it could be managed, but pleading for people's altruism doesn't seem to work.

[Meatball]

That picture is truly brilliant but let's be honest here it's not simply a result of a campaign by Womad and more a result of the type of people the festival attracts.

One of the great things about Glastonbury is that it's so diverse but with diversity comes a mixed crowd of people which again is a good thing in many ways as I for one enjoy sharing experiences/moments with strangers I wouldn't normally interact with however the fact it has now become so vast and is virtually a mini city means there will people who don't share or appreciate the ideals of the greater good

[Swine_Glasto2014]

Gonna use my twatted tent this weekend

[DeanoL]

There has to be a way. Considering the Glastonbury 'ethos' what gets left is shameful.

If you could have some sort of certificate to say that you'd completely cleared your pitch that gave you a headstart for next year's ticket lottery it might help.

Not sure how it could be managed, but pleading for people's altruism doesn't seem to work.

Anything like this could work. Or the idea of barcoding everyone's tent on arrival, or having stewards monitoring people leaving, all that stuff... it's all possible.

But most them are more expensive than just paying people to clean it all up afterwards. Most of the ideas being suggested here would likely cost more than that. Which would defeat the entire point.

I know people like to think of Glastonbury as a green festival, and that Leave No Trace is there so things aren't wasted, but it's not. It's there because it's expensive to clean up after. Which I guess is where I get a lot of flack on this thread - because anything I suggest is there to reduce the cost of the clean up, not to make sure stuff goes where people want it to go.

[giantkatestacks]

Paying people to clean up doesnt reduce the landfill percentage though which is the problem with the licence - its not just a money thing.

[LondonTom]

Anything like this could work. Or the idea of barcoding everyone's tent on arrival, or having stewards monitoring people leaving, all that stuff... it's all possible.

Barcoding, what 50,000? odd tentss on arrival and then scanning them all out when people leave. It may be possible but its hardly feasible. Given the festival doesn't even use Barcodes on the tickets.

[stuartbert two hats]

Barcoding, what 50,000? odd tentss on arrival and then scanning them all out when people leave. It may be possible but its hardly feasible. Given the festival doesn't even use Barcodes on the tickets.

I think that was DeanoL's point.

Edited July 31, 2014 by stuartbert two hats

[carlosj]

Introduce the 'Minority Report' process, and bar everyone in October who has been foretold that they will leave litter and tents behind in 2015.

[stuartbert two hats]

I actually think that GFL need to be a bit more militant about it. Yes it will never be a proper leave no trace festival like Womad (amazing shot) or Burning Man but something has to change.

Even though I volunteer to litterpick I think people knowing that it all is going to be cleared during (for the stages) and after (for the campsites) makes people more blase about it. There has been lots of experiments about altruism, community and money and once a transaction is involved, ie people can see that their ticket price pays for litterpicking etc then they lose incentives to do it out of a sense of the right thing to do. I think there should be a community campsite clearance at some point, though I know its hard to enforce or there needs to be penalties for leaving your tent. I.e. steward involvement.

I don't think the status quo should be accepted. If for anything else the landfill amounts threaten the licence.

Do they? I mean landfill is bad, we all agree with that, but has there been any indication that the current amounts going to landfill from the festival could put the license is jeopardy? Has it been raised at the licence applications? Also, are the levels going to landfill rising? I genuinely don't know - it's the first I've heard if so.

Edited July 31, 2014 by stuartbert two hats