5,000 tents discarded

[gizmoman]

I agree completely but at present taking discarded stuff is in a lot of cases, theft. If you take a discarded tent from the Glastonbury site, you are either stealing from the original owner of the tent or Glastonbury Festivals itself.

The original owner has deliberately left the tent behind, essentially littering the site. Taking it away and reusing it is not theft, just as picking up a tin can from the street and recycling it isn't, the original owner has discarded it for someone else to deal with. As for the festival, they have made it abundantly clear that they don't want any tents left, they have no use for them in any condition. They certainly don't wish to claim ownership of anything deliberately left behind. (lost property is another story). Read TOS leave no trace policy.

[progue]

Taking stuff that has been abondened by its owner Vs. Taking stuff that someone still owns?

See the difference?

I've made it pretty clear what I think Tom.

The fact remains that by and large the people who are taking stuff have absolutely no idea whether or not the items they are taking have been abandoned and even if they did, they are opting to take items that may well have come in useful for charities and other organisations who have arranged to come on site to remove the items in the correct manner.

The fact that these people are making a nuisance of themselves by rummaging through items when the festival remains in progress also has a negative impact on other festival goers, who do not particularly want to feel like their belongings will be ransacked, simply because they left them unattended on the Monday.

Inevitably, however people who partake in this mass Monday theft, will continue to justify it to themselves, despite the negative impact it has on others as do those who choose to leave their rubbish on site, thus creating this secondary issue for those of us who just want to attend a festival, take our stuff home and in the interim have it left alone until such time as we actually leave.

Edited August 26, 2014 by progue

[frostypaw]

I've made it pretty clear what I think Tom.

The fact remains that by and large the people who are taking stuff have absolutely no idea whether or not the items they are taking have been abandoned and even if they did, they are opting to take items that may well have come in useful for charities and other organisations who have arranged to come on site to remove the items in the correct manner.

The fact that these people are making a nuisance of themselves by rummaging through items when the festival remains in progress also has a negative impact on other festival goers, who do not particularly want to feel like their belongings will be ransacked, simply because they left them unattended on the Monday.

Inevitably, however people who partake in this mass Monday theft, will continue to justify it to themselves, despite the negative impact it has on others as do those who choose to leave their rubbish on site, thus creating this secondary issue for those of us who just want to attend a festival, take our stuff home and in the interim have it left alone until such time as we actually leave.

I am sorry that you feel so threatened by the thieves that do go around on Monday that you feel the need to be quite so rude to quite so many other people but you really are coming across as so much of an arse that i'm starting to look good

the thieves are dickheads, noone would disagree - but i think even from your pedestal you'd have difficulty labelling someone who picked up a load of litter and took it away a thief - or would you?

at which point does this litter picking become thieving to you? a discarded lanyard? a yeovalley bag? a chair left on a pile of bin bags and rubbish where a campsite had been cleared? A discarded stove beside it? How about a tent left on the same pile? packed or unpacked? What if it's standing etc...

Have you actually thought through where you're drawing this imaginary line of criminality or do you just want to talk to everyone like they're naughty children for even considering it?

Well worded pile'o'steaming'crap tho, lots of effective reduction to black and white and absolutes, complete with a dosage of personal distress that we can all relate to etc. a press office would be proud

[zero000]

I'm incredibly late to this discussion, and amazed it's still going but surely tatting is completely in line with the Glastonbury ethos? A tent going into a landfill versus a tent being reused by someone else, it's not hard to see which one fits with Glastonbury's green ideology.

[DeanoL]

Tatting may not be theft but at best it provides the perfect smokescreen for thieves to actually operate in on Monday. Your stuff was left in your tent and got nicked on the Monday? It was taken by a thief, not a tatter. But the reason no-one stopped them is because they look exactly the same as the 'legit' tatters just taking abandoned stuff.

"What's that mate? Nah it's not my tent, not a thief, this tent is abandoned, just seeing if there's anything left behind worth having."

[frostypaw]

Tatting may not be theft but at best it provides the perfect smokescreen for thieves to actually operate in on Monday. Your stuff was left in your tent and got nicked on the Monday? It was taken by a thief, not a tatter. But the reason no-one stopped them is because they look exactly the same as the 'legit' tatters just taking abandoned stuff.

"What's that mate? Nah it's not my tent, not a thief, this tent is abandoned, just seeing if there's anything left behind worth having."

That's very valid and I wish they kept security fully operational until Tuesday or whenever they decreed - there's so much stuff left behind it's going to attract undesirables like flies to shit. I've talked to too many folk who get their year's booze supply from left behind stuff at Glasto and they're the good guys

If they're going to say it's safe at all there needs to be proper controls still at the gates

[stuartbert two hats]

That's very valid and I wish they kept security fully operational until Tuesday or whenever they decreed - there's so much stuff left behind it's going to attract undesirables like flies to shit. I've talked to too many folk who get their year's booze supply from left behind stuff at Glasto and they're the good guys

If they're going to say it's safe at all there needs to be proper controls still at the gates

Extending the lock-ups by 24, or even 8 hours would make a big difference too.

[gizmoman]

Well I've been on this forum (and the now defunct TOS forum) since 2001. (didn't register for a couple of years). I can't remember a single thread regarding tent thefts on the Monday, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the whole 'taking anything is theft' argument seems to me to be ridiculous, the festival want NOTHING left behind (in an ideal world) and they have stated repeatedly that tents in particular don't have any value to them. It clearly costs more to unpeg, take down, clean, repack and try to sell on then they can hope to recoup in the time available to them. The cost of second hand tents is amazingly small. It is quite possible to buy an almost new high quality £150 tent on ebay for £30. ( I know because I've done it). The tatters are not thieves, a more realistic way of looking at them is of paid volunteers, they are spending their own time collecting items that are discarded in the hope of making a bit of money. They still have to take down, transport, clean, repack and advertise the goods before they get any money, they are actually working, to a degree and are helping to clear the site for the festival. I'm not a 'tatter' the only thing I've taken back that wasn't my own was an abandoned trolley in 2007. it was left in the car park covered in mud. I stuck it in a bin liner and took it home, cleaned it up and I'm still using it. If any one on here thinks I did the wrong thing I'd be interested to hear their reasons.

[Mark E. Spliff]

I've been a tatter for 10 years. Never sold a tent in my life though - given them all to friends and colleagues.

Progue argues his case well. If I ever went to a festival as a punter, I'd be paranoid about leaving my tent for 5 minutes on the Monday. Suggestion: a protocol for tatters. E.g:

• A 'start time' for the tatting to begin.
• Anyone (other than a festival official) opening a zipped tent to be treated as a thief.
• Anyone taking a tent must also bin/recycle all the junk left in and around it.
• Any high value or important items - cameras/phones/keys - to be handed to lost property.

This wouldn't solve the problem though. The supermarket junk tents/gazebos/chairs etc. would still be left as nobody who knows about tents wants them and they're pretty much worthless. This could be an opportunity for some enterprising festival goers to talk to the Eavii about cutting a deal: they get free entry to the festival providing they bag up all the serviceable tents in a specified area on the Monday. The Eavii could then sell these in the run-up to future festivals (to be collected at the gate) at a ridiculously low price, thereby beating the supermarkets at their own game.

All the wrecked tents/gazebos etc would still have to go to landfill, but this could reduce the amount greatly.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I've been a tatter for 10 years. Never sold a tent in my life though - given them all to friends and colleagues.

Progue argues his case well. If I ever went to a festival as a punter, I'd be paranoid about leaving my tent for 5 minutes on the Monday. Suggestion: a protocol for tatters. E.g:

• A 'start time' for the tatting to begin.
• Anyone (other than a festival official) opening a zipped tent to be treated as a thief.
• Anyone taking a tent must also bin/recycle all the junk left in and around it.
• Any high value or important items - cameras/phones/keys - to be handed to lost property.

This wouldn't solve the problem though. The supermarket junk tents/gazebos/chairs etc. would still be left as nobody who knows about tents wants them and they're pretty much worthless. This could be an opportunity for some enterprising festival goers to talk to the Eavii about cutting a deal: they get free entry to the festival providing they bag up all the serviceable tents in a specified area on the Monday. The Eavii could then sell these in the run-up to future festivals (to be collected at the gate) at a ridiculously low price, thereby beating the supermarkets at their own game.

All the wrecked tents/gazebos etc would still have to go to landfill, but this could reduce the amount greatly.

I'd be all for that manifesto. The only downside is that not all tatters will be on this forum to notice this restriction on their current activities. In fact, even if they were, not all would agree to the 'pact'.

[Mark E. Spliff]

I'd be all for that manifesto. The only downside is that not all tatters will be on this forum to notice this restriction on their current activities. In fact, even if they were, not all would agree to the 'pact'.

Couldn't agree more. This forum isn't as important as we think - only a tiny minority of festival goers that I speak to have heard of it, let alone used it. Any protocol for tatters would need to be promoted and enforced by the festival itself. I think there's a good chance they'd run with the idea as the problem is a huge embarrassment for all festivals and for the supposedly-green Glastonbury in particular.

[ICGenie]

I've been a tatter for 10 years. Never sold a tent in my life though - given them all to friends and colleagues.

Progue argues his case well. If I ever went to a festival as a punter, I'd be paranoid about leaving my tent for 5 minutes on the Monday. Suggestion: a protocol for tatters. E.g:

• A 'start time' for the tatting to begin.
• Anyone (other than a festival official) opening a zipped tent to be treated as a thief.
• Anyone taking a tent must also bin/recycle all the junk left in and around it.
• Any high value or important items - cameras/phones/keys - to be handed to lost property.

This wouldn't solve the problem though. The supermarket junk tents/gazebos/chairs etc. would still be left as nobody who knows about tents wants them and they're pretty much worthless. This could be an opportunity for some enterprising festival goers to talk to the Eavii about cutting a deal: they get free entry to the festival providing they bag up all the serviceable tents in a specified area on the Monday. The Eavii could then sell these in the run-up to future festivals (to be collected at the gate) at a ridiculously low price, thereby beating the supermarkets at their own game.

All the wrecked tents/gazebos etc would still have to go to landfill, but this could reduce the amount greatly.

That is actually a genius idea. It doesn't go as far as the "pre-pitched tents" but would allow people to collect their tent there - particularly good for those on public transport and/or coming from abroad. You could start it small but I reckon it could germinate into a whole new way of doing festivals.

Clever!