5,000 tents discarded

[progue]

There's what you are referring to as tatters....there are outright theives and there is a whole grey area in between, which plenty thrive on.

As far as I'm concerned, rummaging around in a place where people are still camping is pretty intrusive and unacceptable behaviour, whatever your intentions are.

[frostypaw]

I was asleep in my tent with my bags, maybe you misunderstood!

I understood - did you imagine that thieves check if people are having a sleep then don't nick stuff if someone is having a nap?

No a thief sees you're asleep and takes advantage - that's why they're thieves they're immoral and unfair people

I know it's harsh and not what you wanted to hear, but it is the horrible reality of it. The Eavises are pretty awesome but they can't fundamentally change human nature. Thieves will be thieves - don't make it easy for them - it's been said thousands of times on here for a decade at least

[Starks]

Did you report your theft?

and in bold once again to your knowledge. so you don't actually know (nor do I by the way, but I would have thought it should be)

Yes I did report it, which was a real pain in the ass took two hours and a long trek across the site. The crime stats that are on Avon and Somerset website are for this year at least are quoted on monday morning. "As of Monday morning, as people go home, there have been 242 crimes - which is about 20% less than last year."

To be fair it does say later in the article "It's not too late for anyone who has got home and found property missing to report it to us." but I can't find any other info on their website about Glastonbury crime stats.

Also the hassle of reporting a crime may mean that there are quite a few that go unreported? 242 for 175,000 is incredibly low for a weekend of people staying in unsecured places though. I don't think that I was the only one of 242 (ok it was last year for me so one of 280somthing).

There's what you are referring to as tatters....there are outright theives and there is a whole grey area in between, which plenty thrive on.

As far as I'm concerned, rummaging around in a place where people are still camping is pretty intrusive and unacceptable behaviour, whatever your intentions are.

I 100% agree there are people who are consciously trying to not leave things to waste, and there are far too many tents that are left. However the idea that things that are "unattended" on the monday are somehow fair game is wrong in my opinion. There is also the fact that people going rummaging around looking in tents on the monday makes it much easier for thieves to get away with doing the same. As progue said in an earlier post the tatting should maybe be at least discouraged until later in the day on the monday.

I understood - did you imagine that thieves check if people are having a sleep then don't nick stuff if someone is having a nap?

No a thief sees you're asleep and takes advantage - that's why they're thieves they're immoral and unfair people

I know it's harsh and not what you wanted to hear, but it is the horrible reality of it. The Eavises are pretty awesome but they can't fundamentally change human nature. Thieves will be thieves - don't make it easy for them - it's been said thousands of times on here for a decade at least

To be honest what annoyed me about your post was that you were telling me I was a fool for sleeping in my own tent on the monday and expecting my stuff to be still be there when I woke up. There are some thefts from tents during the festival, I do not see what can be done about that beyond what is, however on the monday it is another level. You would take exception with someone looking in a number of tents on the days of the festival however as it is some how acceptable to be tatting on the monday no one batts an eyelid over people unzipping other peoples tents. This makes it far easier for thieves to blend in, which is never going to be a good thing.

PS some tatters may unzip a tent to look inside and realise that it is not abandoned and walk off, but the next person may see a tent still unzipped and then think it has been abandoned.

There is something wrong with what is happening on the monday in my opinion.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Starks

[Zoo Music Girl]

Think you need to get the facts first. A few folk on here saying some things have been nicked does not make it widespread.

I've been going since 1982 and never heard of anyone getting anything taken on the Monday (just to balance things up) you will often here the negative side more than positive always the way.

Well, yeah of course, and I've not had anything nicked yet, thankfully.

[ivan]

This was the first year one of our group and our neighbours got turned over and we have camped in Big Ground since 2002 without any previous trouble.

Anyway re the thread - i have one of those flowery Kath Kidston ones - i got it years ago and i am never leaving that behind !

[progue]

Of course it's widespread . . . Pennards was like a load of vultures had descended on it this year...Far worse than I can recall.

Obviously most people under those circumstances make the sensible choice to pack up or remain with someone watching their property...

The point is that people wishing to stay and chill should not have to worry about this ridiculous tatting thing.

And I don't care how accustomed to the festival you are...I defy anyone to say they'd feel happy leaving a decent tent with just the basics inside and going to do a few hours chilling around site on Monday.

You know full well plenty would consider an unoccupied tent as fair game.

I mean by people's own admission anyone leaving a tent alone with the doors open (to dry it out unwittingly) has apparently left an open invitation for a tatters to take it.

[fred quimby]

Of course it's widespread . . . Pennards was like a load of vultures had descended on it this year...Far worse than I can recall.

Obviously most people under those circumstances make the sensible choice to pack up or remain with someone watching their property...

The point is that people wishing to stay and chill should not have to worry about this ridiculous tatting thing.

And I don't care how accustomed to the festival you are...I defy anyone to say they'd feel happy leaving a decent tent with just the basics inside and going to do a few hours chilling around site on Monday.

You know full well plenty would consider an unoccupied tent as fair game.

I mean by people's own admission anyone leaving a tent alone with the doors open (to dry it out unwittingly) has apparently left an open invitation for a tatters to take it.

Agree, apart from the statement ridiculous tatting thing I have 2 pairs of Wellies from 97 still that were left in a field, a new cover for a Gazebo I permanently have in my Garden, friend picked up a chair in the pyramid field on the Monday, but I assume you are just speaking about taking tents and contents of or are you saying everything?

How would you go about stopping it, apart from trying to get everyone to leave no trace?

[progue]

Agree, apart from the statement ridiculous tatting thing I have 2 pairs of Wellies from 97 still that were left in a field, a new cover for a Gazebo I permanently have in my Garden, friend picked up a chair in the pyramid field on the Monday, but I assume you are just speaking about taking tents and contents of or are you saying everything?

How would you go about stopping it, apart from trying to get everyone to leave no trace?

I think I probably should be a bit more careful not just to blanket everyone under the same umbrella. Picking up a pair of Wellies left next to the bin or just chucked in a field or a chair left in the middle of a field is a bit different to what seems to have evolved more recently.

I really do not think that tents or the contents of tents should be considered fair game until the site should have been vacated OR the owners of the items basically tell you that you can go for it.

It's hard to stop it, but I would encourage security (and not the heavy handed mob by the way) to politely request that people refrain from rummaging around for bits and bats to take until maybe 5-6 p.m. on the Monday. It's pretty obvious what is happening on Pennards and it's not unusual to get your tent kicked, door opened and a head pop in, if you are still in bed on Monday. It simply isn't right to be in and around tents whilst people are asleep.

So for me I'd just like to see a bit of common sense applied and if people are (as they seem to be suggesting they are) fair and reasonable about what they are doing AND if they want to genuinely do their utmost to ensure the items they take are not being unwittingly stolen, then waiting until much later in the day seems to be a sensible compromise.

I'm not really sure I've got too much else to add really and feel like I'm just regurgitating stuff that's already been said...So I'll leave it there if that's OK

[DeanoL]

As far as I can tell, in the context of Glastonbury, 'Tatting' is theft, pure and simple. Sure, the items may have legally been abandoned, but the festival in on private property. This is not the same as finding something abandoned in the street. The abandoned items now belong to the festival. You're stealing from them.

This is an issue, as a possible way to manage the clean-up is to basically invite small groups or charities on site on Tuesday, allocate them a field, and allow them to keep whatever they want in exchange for doing a clean up of a designated area. However, that's something that's a lot harder to sell when 'tatters' have already stolen the most valuable items the previous day.

It's not your stuff. You are not 'helping' the festival by 'tatting', you're just stealing from it. It's just opportunistic theft. Sure, it won't make a huge difference and no-one will likely care, but don't come along with self-delusions that you're 'helping' or making a positive impact on the environment and being green and recycling. No, you're just nicking stuff either from the festival or other people. You're no better or worse than people who find a wallet in the street and keep it rather than handing it in.

[dmillburn]

There was people tatting next to us at around 8.30am on the Monday which is just stupid - we were asked if a gazebo near us belonged to us and when we said no they instantly started to dismantle it. It was the expensive hexagonal type with full mesh sides rather than a cheap £20 job (then even excalimed "do you know what this is worth!") so I had to say that just because it wasn't ours it doesn't mean that it doesn't belong to one of the many people still asleep in the tents next to it. It may well have been abandoned but just taking something at that time without properly checking is not on, I don't want to feel like I can't go and get a bite to eat for breakfast without coming back to find my tent gone.

[DeanoL]

In terms of abandoned tents... I packed my tent up at 5am on the Monday, it was wet, I took it to the coach park and back to my flat. I live in a small flat with no garden or yard, so last weekend I spent thirty quid on a train ticket to go back to my parents' put the tent up to dry in the garden so it wouldn't ruin, then back to where I live again...

Not saying that having to do that would justify leaving a tent behind, but essentially I've spent £30 to dry the tent when a new one would cost me £40. I can totally understand when you're in a sitation like this, why people abandon stuff. Especially students who likely live in halls with no where to dry the tent, and on the other side of the country to their parents who have the only garden they can viably use.

Again, it doesn't make it okay, but I do get wound up when people go "I don't understand, why would someone leave something that costs money, why not just put it in the car and put it up to dry in the garden when they get home?" completely ignorent of their own privilege in having a car and a garden in the first place.

[LondonTom]

Especially students who likely live in halls with no where to dry the tent, and on the other side of the country to their parents who have the only garden they can viably use.

They could wait until they went back for the summer? Most are already home/not far off.

You can find excuses if you want to for anything, you could leave it out the bag but not errected to dry with occasionally turning it over and inside out to make sure its all dry/clean?

[frostypaw]

They could wait until they went back for the summer? Most are already home/not far off.

You can find excuses if you want to for anything, you could leave it out the bag but not errected to dry with occasionally turning it over and inside out to make sure its all dry/clean?

Careful son, that's using your brain for good.

Instead use it to find issue, complain and generally discover ways that other people should take responsibility away from you - that's the idea old chap

DeanoL - rather than whinging at your choice to go see your parents as though that was the ONLY option you had to dry your tent how about.... and forgive me if this makes your brain explode - go to a local park, set it up and have a can or two of beer.

Free. Gratis. Zero cost past the beers - your claim that it cost you £30 is spurious gibberish. Find another reason to criticise the festival that stands up to two seconds of thought. Jesus wept man I live in a flat, I take my tents to a car park (brilliant, black tarmac gets real hot and drys them out super quick) or the local park.

I can totally understand why people abandon stuff too given what you just said - lack of thought. Willingness to blame others for not taking care of you. So sit there and accuse folk of stealing all you want, but I can't give your reasoning much credit when you can't work out how to dry a tent without going home to mummy and daddy

[Zoo Music Girl]

I've got some sympathy on the tent drying out issue, but I would never abandon my tent because of it. It's still sat there going "Take me to the park, go on" and I keep saying "Sssh, later..."

[DeanoL]

I can totally understand why people abandon stuff too given what you just said - lack of thought. Willingness to blame others for not taking care of you. So sit there and accuse folk of stealing all you want, but I can't give your reasoning much credit when you can't work out how to dry a tent without going home to mummy and daddy

Well that's the sort of response I'd expect from someone whose admitted to being a theiving c**t. Your mummy and daddy probably threw you out when you were sixteen as they couldn't stand the sight of such a reprobate.

But if you must know, most city parks will not allow people to pitch up tents there. Nor will the ones around me allow you beer either.

[fred quimby]

. I can totally understand when you're in a sitation like this, why people abandon stuff. Especially students who likely live in halls with no where to dry the tent, and on the other side of the country to their parents who have the only garden they can viably use.

.

mmmmmmm

You do know that it costs the festival money to put this in landfill. some years their costs are doubled, which means less money to good causes, just because it takes a little effort to dry out a tent/ take your shit off someone elses land.

As you say you don't condone it but you seem to be making excuses for people to be lazy and let some one else pick up the bill

[frostypaw]

Well that's the sort of response I'd expect from someone whose admitted to being a theiving c**t. Your mummy and daddy probably threw you out when you were sixteen as they couldn't stand the sight of such a reprobate.

But if you must know, most city parks will not allow people to pitch up tents there. Nor will the ones around me allow you beer either.

You're a right charmer

thieving. the spell check catches that.

then if your park doesn't allow you how about a friend with a garden or yard - or just laid flat in a car park - or in a laundry bag in a drier at worst. This is taking me seconds to think of. It's not so difficult fella, much as you hate it being pointed out

[DeanoL]

mmmmmmm

You do know that it costs the festival money to put this in landfill. some years their costs are doubled, which means less money to good causes, just because it takes a little effort to dry out a tent/ take your shit off someone elses land.

As you say you don't condone it but you seem to be making excuses for people to be lazy and let some one else pick up the bill

The costs are built into the ticket price. If it turns out to be more expensive than they predicted then it's bad business planning. The costs won't just be randomly doubled though.

But as I say, I'm not saying people should do it. It's part of the agreement, you go on site, you agree to take back all the stuff you bought with you. That's the deal.

All that's happening here is people are saying "I can't possibly understand why anyone would abandon something anyway" and I'm saying "Well it's probably because of X, Y and Z which you haven't considered". And apparently no, that can't possibly be the reason, and the real reason is that 5000 people are just dicks that want to annoy Michael Eavis apparently.

It's like a guy walking in on his wife cheating on him with another man and he kills him. And I go "well I can understand the mindset that led to him doing that" and having everyone else go "You think killing is okay! It is not! The guy is evil! It is the only explanation!"

[DeanoL]

You're a right charmer

thieving. the spell check catches that.

then if your park doesn't allow you how about a friend with a garden or yard - or just laid flat in a car park - or in a laundry bag in a drier at worst. This is taking me seconds to think of. It's not so difficult fella, much as you hate it being pointed out

And yet despite my mis-spelling, you understood it anyway. It's like the essence of what I was saying got through regardless. But cheers for the lesson, one day I'll tell you about the use of capital letters and full stops in return.

You're missing the demographic issue again though. It's been said time and again it was mostly students / young people leaving their stuff. Who are the very type to mostly have friends their own age, who mostly live in accommodation without gardens or yards. They also tend to have those pop up tents which can't be partially erected to dry out inside, or won't fit in a drier. And again, car parks are generally private property, it's not legal to go errect a tent on one.

Again, not saying people should be given a pass on it for any reason, but I'm saying that for some people, once they factor in the time cost and actual cost of drying the thing, there's a reasonable argument to be made that it's not worth their while. And that group tend to be younger people, and they seem to be the people more likely to abandon their stuff. But we're just going with young people = inconsiderate instead of looking for any other correlation?

[frostypaw]

You're missing the demographic issue again though. It's been said time and again it was mostly students / young people leaving their stuff. Who are the very type to mostly have friends their own age, who mostly live in accommodation without gardens or yards. They also tend to have those pop up tents which can't be partially erected to dry out inside, or won't fit in a drier. And again, car parks are generally private property, it's not legal to go errect a tent on one.

Again, not saying people should be given a pass on it for any reason, but I'm saying that for some people, once they factor in the time cost and actual cost of drying the thing, there's a reasonable argument to be made that it's not worth their while. And that group tend to be younger people, and they seem to be the people more likely to abandon their stuff. But we're just going with young people = inconsiderate instead of looking for any other correlation?

No I'm not - a popup is quick to dry, you're not 'erecting a tent' as if some kind of legal entity - you're drying it out. you could try doing it and try explaining why if someone asks you to take it down - have you done that?

Or did you spot the excuse and run with it. This is about laziness - lack of thought, lack of effort. If you're not even trying these things then it's just bone idle laziness

Of course it's not worth their while if they have no sense of the value of money. That's the entire objection

And i'm not saying it's all young folk, the people i see discard all the big stuff have all been middle aged well-offs. When you've an IT job paying £80,000 and your usual holiday costs 5x what Glasto does why wouldn't you dump everything you couldn't be arsed to carry - you upgrade a £400 phone every year, why not a tent.

[Ommadawn]

frostypaw, you're being a bit of a dick again. Why don't you just take a timeout and come back a little less err,,, 'dicky'.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Ommadawn

[DeanoL]

Of course it's not worth their while if they have no sense of the value of money. That's the entire objection

And i'm not saying it's all young folk, the people i see discard all the big stuff have all been middle aged well-offs. When you've an IT job paying £80,000 and your usual holiday costs 5x what Glasto does why wouldn't you dump everything you couldn't be arsed to carry - you upgrade a £400 phone every year, why not a tent.

That's what I'm getting at. We all understand why the rich guy dumps his stuff, you explained it well. It's not worth his time or effort to take it home.

All I'm saying is that for younger people and students, with fairly cheap tents and no easy access to somewhere to dry them before they spoil, it's not worth their time and effort either (tent is £40, will take 4 hours sat with it at a park to dry, I can earn £7.50 an hour working a bar in that time so I'll take the loss on the £10 instead).

Neither case is okay, because the rule is you take back the stuff you bought in. And yes, in both cases it is laziness. The rich guy doesn't want to expend the effort to carry it to the car. The student doesn't want to do that or expend the time and effort to dry it out afterwards.

It matters because I actually think having dedicated camping 'rubbish' bays where you packed your tent away and chucked it in along with chairs or whatever would reduce the amount of stuff left behind for this reason. And if everyone did this the taffers could just go take stuff out of them too and wouldn't bother people still camping. I think 'Bag it, bin it' would actually do better than 'Leave no trace' as the motto. Obviously, that stuff would still need disposing of, but it wouldn't need taking down and collecting, which must be a huge part of the expense.

[DeanoL]

frostypaw, you're being a bit of a dick again. Why don't you just take a timeout and come back a little less err,,, 'dicky'.

Thanks, but while he is, I'm being a dick back so it's fine, I think we can both cope

[fred quimby]

The costs are built into the ticket price. If it turns out to be more expensive than they predicted then it's bad business planning. The costs won't just be randomly doubled though.

But as I say, I'm not saying people should do it. It's part of the agreement, you go on site, you agree to take back all the stuff you bought with you. That's the deal.

All that's happening here is people are saying "I can't possibly understand why anyone would abandon something anyway" and I'm saying "Well it's probably because of X, Y and Z which you haven't considered". And apparently no, that can't possibly be the reason, and the real reason is that 5000 people are just dicks that want to annoy Michael Eavis apparently.

It's like a guy walking in on his wife cheating on him with another man and he kills him. And I go "well I can understand the mindset that led to him doing that" and having everyone else go "You think killing is okay! It is not! The guy is evil! It is the only explanation!"

I have spoken to one of the managers of the waste teams and yes it has doubled some years due to the amount of stuff left behind. As for what is factored in to the ticket price I have no idea, not that the ticket takes up much of the cost of the festival. Poor business planning. mmmmmm seems to be a pretty well run business from where I am sitting, they just have to take more money away from good causes. Perhaps you want the price increased so that the people who can't afford it are priced out just so lazy people can carry on as they are.

I really can't see any excuses for leaving your stuff behind (do remember it happens in dry years too). the idea that young people can't figure out a way to dry out their stuff is just daft. And if they were able to store all this stuff before the festival then why not after. The reason is not to annoy Mr Eavis it's beacause they are lazy.

As for your finding your wife cheating example my 13 year old comes up with less exaggerated examples when debating with me.

I am also not blaming young people. It's lazy people I am talking about. I have no idea what age these people are

As you say though you don't understand. It's just you can excuse them

[frostypaw]

It matters because I actually think having dedicated camping 'rubbish' bays where you packed your tent away and chucked it in along with chairs or whatever would reduce the amount of stuff left behind for this reason. And if everyone did this the taffers could just go take stuff out of them too and wouldn't bother people still camping. I think 'Bag it, bin it' would actually do better than 'Leave no trace' as the motto. Obviously, that stuff would still need disposing of, but it wouldn't need taking down and collecting, which must be a huge part of the expense.

Do you really think that this year people left their tents because of the drying out issue?

I get where you're coming from with that as a reason rather than excuse for laziness - and it's not totally invalid but poorly reasoned. Yes you take only a £10 hit now because of your loss of the tent you then need to buy a new one for the next time - it adds up pretty quickly

People can't even be arsed to take them down, so why if there's a place somewhere do you think they'll suddenly be inspired to take it down and pack it up nicely and take it somewhere? What's suddenly going to make folk do that? Did you know they can already kinda do that taking them to the campsite stewards site - it's not official but it's the closest thing to it and I've heard many people say it's official

But they still don't do it. Plans is all good and fine, but what's the motivation? Good will ain't gonna cut it sadly