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watsonjm

Sad times

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Surprised it has lasted this long to be honest, especially in its two-site format. Thought they would have dropped down to one a while ago.

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The problem with gearing a festival towards simpletons is that simpletons tend to be very fickle, and their loyalty cannot be relied upon.

 

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Maaaaaan :( Especially disappointing if it is indeed Weston that's got the axe rather than Chelmsford, from a personal perspective with it having been my first proper festival, but also the Midlands economy has no other mainstream festivals whereas the South East has a ton. The end of V wouldn't leave a gap in the market down there like it will around here. Not surprised in the slightest, mind.

Edited by Zac Quinn

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52 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Maaaaaan :( Especially disappointing if it is indeed Weston that's got the axe rather than Chelmsford, from a personal perspective with it having been my first proper festival, but also the Midlands economy has no other mainstream festivals whereas the South East has a ton. The end of V wouldn't leave a gap in the market down there like it will around here. Not surprised in the slightest, mind.

if there's a market and a gap, someone will fill it.

In fact, it doesn't need the demise of V to bring that about, if V is really the dire that people often say it is and if there's really that market.

I suspect the thing which has really impacted on V Staffordshire's popularity is the rise of a number of festivals in the north west - which means those in Manc, etc, who used to travel down to V are less likely to because there's alternatives nearby.

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9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

if there's a market and a gap, someone will fill it.

In fact, it doesn't need the demise of V to bring that about, if V is really the dire that people often say it is and if there's really that market.

I suspect the thing which has really impacted on V Staffordshire's popularity is the rise of a number of festivals in the north west - which means those in Manc, etc, who used to travel down to V are less likely to because there's alternatives nearby.

It's not value for money. It's as simple as that. 

 

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1 minute ago, craigb said:

It's not value for money. It's as simple as that. 

I agree it's expensive compared to other comparable fests - it's nearly the same price as Reading/Leeds but with a day less - but it's always been like that. It might have helped its demise but there's more to it than just that.

Another factor has got to be the bookings and how they've changed - but that was cos the music fashions did before the festival did. Having to change wasn't in itself wrong, tho they might have been off-target with the different types of acts they booked.

But I do also think that the expanded options in the NW are some of it too. It's not only people from the midlands it used to attract.

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23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

if there's a market and a gap, someone will fill it.

In fact, it doesn't need the demise of V to bring that about, if V is really the dire that people often say it is and if there's really that market.

I suspect the thing which has really impacted on V Staffordshire's popularity is the rise of a number of festivals in the north west - which means those in Manc, etc, who used to travel down to V are less likely to because there's alternatives nearby.

I know what you're saying, and it's not an unreasonable point, when I started at uni on Merseyside there were a ton of people banging on about how they'd all been to V that summer but by the time I left three years later nobody mentioned it at all let alone went.

But there surely has to be some appetite for a mainstream music festival in the Midlands. If V Staffs goes under, the nearest big festival for Brummies will be Reading and then the London ones. Even Suffolk will have more than us, and that's not a major music destination by anyone's interpretation.

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7 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

I know what you're saying, and it's not an unreasonable point, when I started at uni on Merseyside there were a ton of people banging on about how they'd all been to V that summer but by the time I left three years later nobody mentioned it at all let alone went.

But there surely has to be some appetite for a mainstream music festival in the Midlands. If V Staffs goes under, the nearest big festival for Brummies will be Reading and then the London ones. Even Suffolk will have more than us, and that's not a major music destination by anyone's interpretation.

There should be some appetite in such a big conurbation, but Brum and area doesn't really seem to be on the musical map very much even outside of festivals (or at least, nowhere near as big as might be expected for its size). No idea why.

 

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13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

There should be some appetite in such a big conurbation, but Brum and area doesn't really seem to be on the musical map very much even outside of festivals (or at least, nowhere near as big as might be expected for its size). No idea why.

 

birmingham arena is normally one of the last to sell out despite it being the second biggest city in the uk. 

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Just now, eFestivals said:

There should be some appetite in such a big conurbation, but Brum and area doesn't really seem to be on the musical map very much even outside of festivals (or at least, nowhere near as big as might be expected for its size). No idea why.

 

Yes they've tried a few festivals in Birmingham and the surrounding areas and it hasn't worked, v has been the exception that has actually worked.

Beyond the tracks sold horrendously a week ago, wireless tried a day up here a couple of years ago.

Then again few smaller festivals do very well like Shrewsbury Folk Festival, Mosley festival etc etc.

T in the park and possibly V going, perhaps that huge type of festival is a bit dated. Only really Download seems to be doing well.

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Just now, thetime said:

T in the park and possibly V going, perhaps that huge type of festival is a bit dated. Only really Download seems to be doing well.

Download is it's own niche, tho. I read something of (I think) Andy Copping's the other day where he said a no-Glastonbury year doesn't make any difference to it, while those offering up wider-genre stuff were saying different.

i'd say that huge type of festival and all festivals are a bit dated, really. They're something the mums and dads do, and that's never been particularly great for youth appeal. 

Add-in that it's getting harder and harder for a youngster to start something up themselves that might drag other youngsters along, and it's a bit like the state of the country in some ways.

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Just now, eFestivals said:

Download is it's own niche, tho. I read something of (I think) Andy Copping's the other day where he said a no-Glastonbury year doesn't make any difference to it, while those offering up wider-genre stuff were saying different.

i'd say that huge type of festival and all festivals are a bit dated, really. They're something the mums and dads do, and that's never been particularly great for youth appeal. 

Add-in that it's getting harder and harder for a youngster to start something up themselves that might drag other youngsters along, and it's a bit like the state of the country in some ways.

The medium sized ones seem to be doing very well like Kendal calling(sells out quick), parklife, victorious festival, electric fields in Ireland. 

You are more in the know than me, are statistics showing more are going overseas? I've noticed myself that more and more brits going to sziget, werchter and pulkelpop in recent years.

Edited by thetime

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1 minute ago, thetime said:

The medium sized ones seem to be doing very well like Kendal calling(seeks out quick), parklife, victorious festival, electric fields in Ireland. 

yep, tho festival favourites seem to come and go so a few good years doesn't necessarily mean forever. There was a time not very long ago when V fest and T in the Park both did very well.

The medium sized ones are currently probably picking up many of those mums and dads, as a lot of the acts are the big acts of yesteryear.

 

1 minute ago, thetime said:

You are more in the know than me, are statistics showing more are going overseas? I've noticed myself that more and more brits going to sziget, werchter and pulkelpop in recent years.

I believe so, but I can't say i've paid attention.

That's perhaps going to drop back a little, as the fall in the pound has made overseas fests more expensive.

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17 minutes ago, Muppetmark said:

birmingham arena is normally one of the last to sell out despite it being the second biggest city in the uk. 

we also never get stadium gigs round here, despite there being five decent-size stadiums within fairly easy reach of the city centre (and a sixth on the way if they go ahead with the redevelopment of the athletics place). sucks.

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Sad, but not surprising. I went to the first V in 96, and have been every year since apart from this one. Started as an indy/rock festival, and as it got bigger started introducing a wider mix - everyone from Green Day to Lady Gaga! I know recently they had been veering more towards pop and dance, but they at least kept some indy bands to keep the likes of me interested!

My guess is that they were losing people from both camps, but still managed to make it work with so many diverse acts. This year was the first where I can honestly say there wasn't a single act I really wanted to see, and so with regret, we decided to call it a day. And yes, this was also partly to do with being older and now having kids, etc. the likes of On Blackheath and Camp Bestival are now our festivals of choice. Still, a shame if it does go, and the end of an era. Would still go back if they broadened the interest again, however...

Edited by The Fella
spelling mistake

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I'm sure I heard a rumour R&L might go to three sites with Chelmsford. Has anyone else heard this at all or is it just #fakenews ??

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15 minutes ago, johnl said:

I'm sure I heard a rumour R&L might go to three sites with Chelmsford. Has anyone else heard this at all or is it just #fakenews ??

Am pretty sure that'll be a fake.

For one, they only just sell-out Reading now, and don't sell out Leeds - which suggests there's not the audience for a 3rd.

There might be some years depending on which acts they have - so I guess it's not totally impossible for next year if they've already got a killer act lined up (tho not sure who could shift that number of weekend tickets) - but I can't see how they could make it work every year in the current market.

 

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5 hours ago, johnl said:

I'm sure I heard a rumour R&L might go to three sites with Chelmsford. Has anyone else heard this at all or is it just #fakenews ??

be no point in a third site that close to Reading, surely. if there was gonna be a third it'd have be in Wales or something but yeah, as Neil alludes to, even then there doesn't look to be the appetite for it. And even if it was viable in terms of ticket sales you'd probably run into problems with acts not wanting to play all three days in a row, unless you extended it to four days which would also be a non-starter when they're struggling to fill the undercard as it is.

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7 hours ago, johnl said:

I'm sure I heard a rumour R&L might go to three sites with Chelmsford. Has anyone else heard this at all or is it just #fakenews ??

They tried that a fair few years ago somewhere in Scotland, Glasgow if my memory is correct and it bombed.

Edited by thetime

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13 minutes ago, thetime said:

They tried that a fair few years ago somewhere in Scotland, Glasgow if my memory is correct and it bombed.

it wasn't quite the same thing there, as far as I remember anyway - it didn't have camping.

That suggests another site would have to be in the right location, and while another near London has the best potential audience, the speed at which Reading sells out doesn't suggest to me that there's an easy audience nearby to sell another 80k tickets to.

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On 9/27/2017 at 4:41 PM, Muppetmark said:

birmingham arena is normally one of the last to sell out despite it being the second biggest city in the uk. 

Very much true this, bands will sell out other cities instantly but Birmingham you can rely on unless it's a huge stadium band doing smaller gigs.

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4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

it wasn't quite the same thing there, as far as I remember anyway - it didn't have camping.

 

 

4 hours ago, thetime said:

They tried that a fair few years ago somewhere in Scotland, Glasgow if my memory is correct and it bombed.

Gig / Rock on the Green?  Mean Fiddler had it on the same weekend as R+L. on Glasgow Green. Shared one or two headliners and a handful of the undercard. Lasted 2/3 years before rebranding I think. Bombed the last year it was hosted. 

Info Update:

glasgowgreenfest11b.jpg

2001 - http://www.efestivals.co.uk/festivals/lineups.php?FestID=165

2002 - http://www.efestivals.co.uk/festivals/gigonthegreen/2002/lineup.shtml

 

Edited by craigb

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The simple fact is V didn't know who it was targeting. 

When it started it was a Indie festival with under belly of dance, but that was because Indie was so popular in the charts.

Then they added a smattering of pop and rock/alternative, moreso the latter.

As the years went on, the indie scene in the UK died, and the majority of the charts became pop music, V tried to continue as the Chart Music festival, the problem is though, the charts is full of one album wonders even one song wonders and flash in the pans. They don't work and they don't draw the same kind of punters to festivals. Once they started going down the pop route, it went more and more down it and they alienated the original audience and struggled to pull in new customers. 

Im pretty sure returning sales the following year is something less than 20% anyway. 

The simple fact album sales are down and artists tour more to generate income so are more accessible doesn't help. Plus chances are if you miss an act at a certain festival you can probably catch them at another the following year makes the whole thing less 'MUST SEE'

But V shot themselves in the foot with too much pop and new acts, the bill wasn't varied enough to bring in the crowds. Hell Download couldn't run 2 sites every year in the UK, there wasn't much chance V would be able to do it. 

It seems mad really that when I started going fests they didn't really sell out and they would be on sale all summer and then you had the BOOM where it was instant sell out for a few years then back to slow sales again, im sure those in the industry would love to put their finger on what made festivals so popular back then, maybe it was lack of choice with not so many midsize fests I dunno, but it sure is crazy to look back on those instant sell out years.

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1 hour ago, luckysalt said:

The simple fact is V didn't know who it was targeting. 

When it started it was a Indie festival with under belly of dance, but that was because Indie was so popular in the charts.

Then they added a smattering of pop and rock/alternative, moreso the latter.

As the years went on, the indie scene in the UK died, and the majority of the charts became pop music, V tried to continue as the Chart Music festival, the problem is though, the charts is full of one album wonders even one song wonders and flash in the pans. They don't work and they don't draw the same kind of punters to festivals. Once they started going down the pop route, it went more and more down it and they alienated the original audience and struggled to pull in new customers. 

Im pretty sure returning sales the following year is something less than 20% anyway. 

The simple fact album sales are down and artists tour more to generate income so are more accessible doesn't help. Plus chances are if you miss an act at a certain festival you can probably catch them at another the following year makes the whole thing less 'MUST SEE'

But V shot themselves in the foot with too much pop and new acts, the bill wasn't varied enough to bring in the crowds. Hell Download couldn't run 2 sites every year in the UK, there wasn't much chance V would be able to do it. 

It seems mad really that when I started going fests they didn't really sell out and they would be on sale all summer and then you had the BOOM where it was instant sell out for a few years then back to slow sales again, im sure those in the industry would love to put their finger on what made festivals so popular back then, maybe it was lack of choice with not so many midsize fests I dunno, but it sure is crazy to look back on those instant sell out years.

But V did do it for years and successfully, Download is a completely different mart that doesn't even set itself sellout ticket standards any year as the promise to put it on again, they know they can't whatever Copping thinks. One thing is for sure though, without LN behind the fest being financial from all other areas it would be in a lot more trouble, and speaking of others Leeds would have ages ago too. 

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