Kneecap

[Skip997]

20 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

In the UK? You're going to have to give a source for that claim 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj3x5j6g30ro.amp

[CaledonianGonzo]

11 minutes ago, lazyred said:

It's clearly the trendy cause of the moment and Kneecap are using it to attract notoriety. IRA slogans only got them attention in Ireland. For international fame they had to flirt with Hamas/Hezbollah.

 

Fairly cynical to assume that people opposing a genocide are only doing so because its 'trendy'

[itsAlwaysSunnyInJune]

5 minutes ago, lazyred said:

It's clearly the trendy cause of the moment and Kneecap are using it to attract notoriety. IRA slogans only got them attention in Ireland. For international fame they had to flirt with Hamas/Hezbollah.

They had been supporting Palestine long before the attacks in 2023 that brought the debate back into the mainstream. Try actually looking into the issues being discussed before making such weak arguments. The quality of debate in this thread is too good for those points to pass muster otherwise.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

The absolute hypocrisy of this when the entire precedent of Israel is a +3k year old claim to land.

huh? you were defining their working classness due to The Troubles...that's all.

[Nobby's Old Boots]

3 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

I don't think I could disagree with every word of that more to be honest.

You think people being allowed to say some things they mean and say some things they don't mean and all the context and nuance that is involved in that is having your cake and eating it? That's all of us, every day. That's language, and human behaviour. Quite clearly lots of things are just not meant to be taken literally. I almost can't believe I have to explain that.

I don't think kneecap have ever claimed to be a "serious force for political change". That's always an argument to try to shut down any voice in favour of any cause - "you're not making a difference, be quiet!". To respond directly though, they have raised money at their concerts for palestinian aid, so they quite literally are making a difference

You say 'you think' and then say something I don't think or didn't say.

 

I'm saying that this -
'no, you're supposed to take things seriously which people mean seriously, and don't take things seriously that they don't mean seriously. It is literally that simple. Or don't, it's up to you.'
- Is having your cake and eating it.

 

I have never claimed their voice should be shut down, so that's another deliberate misinterpretation and I have been complimentary about the difference I think they've made. I don't believe they should have gigs cancelled or be pulled from lineups, and I have never said otherwise.

I just find it strange people are so resolute in this that they don't think it was massively idiotic to literally be on a stage and shout "Up Hamas" when they're making a point specifically about Palestine.

 

I know you say that it's art so it shouldn't be taken seriously because it's clear what should and shouldn't be taken seriously. But just because you and me and lots of others know that Kneecap are probably not actually supporters of Hamas (which they've said themselves now) that doesn't mean I think it was anything other than completely foolish to say it, and I don't believe that everyone will just know, by default, that they don't mean it. You are assuming prior knowledge of the group there, and to most people just reading the articles or the bad faith politicians etc who are jumping on it they either don't care to research or they choose not to, so putting yourself in this position, when you have been vocal supporters of the cause, is their own fault and it's just really daft.

 

That's why I'm saying that if they are a political group then I'm afraid part and parcel of that is that if you do something silly, you will be pounced on, and this was completely avoidable because let's not forget the main fact here:

 

They said something, and have now apologised for saying it.

 

So they know it was a mistake, and very possibly know it was a silly one.

 

Sorry for the long post. I just think you're taking the wrong end of the stick of what I'm saying and I want to be clear.

[Colorblindjames]

18 minutes ago, lazyred said:

It's clearly the trendy cause of the moment and Kneecap are using it to attract notoriety. IRA slogans only got them attention in Ireland. For international fame they had to flirt with Hamas/Hezbollah.

Yorkshire man thinks he knows what Irish people think. It was their Irish language approach to rap that triggered the attention of audiences. 
 

The director of the movie said that the driving force behind the movie was heritage and language. 
 

So sorry your statement above is hokum.

[fraybentos1]

22 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

You’re gonna have to give me some evidence that hatred was incited. All I’m seeing is a bunch of words you don’t agree with. 

for something to be incited, it doesn't necessarily need to occur. You could argue that their call to kill MPs was part of an act and wasn't serious as was their support of Hamas but it's hardly clear cut. 

[fraybentos1]

22 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj3x5j6g30ro.amp

The force said the arrests had come amid concerns about plans to "shut down" London next month using tactics such as road blocks

 

You can't plan to do that and not expect repercussions 

[Colorblindjames]

13 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

The force said the arrests had come amid concerns about plans to "shut down" London next month using tactics such as road blocks

 

You can't plan to do that and not expect repercussions 

You believe the met police and not the Quakers? 

[Colorblindjames]

14 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

The force said the arrests had come amid concerns about plans to "shut down" London next month using tactics such as road blocks

 

You can't plan to do that and not expect repercussions 

You believe the met police and not the Quakers? 

[Skip997]

10 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

The force said the arrests had come amid concerns about plans to "shut down" London next month using tactics such as road blocks

 

You can't plan to do that and not expect repercussions 

First off, good for them, we need more mass protests of this nature.

 

There are several things going on that require far more attention than the shutting down of London and if such action is required to wake up the idiots (both public and government) then so be it. 

 

Secondly, they were arrested in a Quaker meeting house, an unprecedented action and extremely worrying. 

[Levitz]

Sorry, but their 'kill your MP' statement was clearly not serious, said with a smirk at the end of a gig. They are lads from West Belfast who have a specific relationship with the UK Govt.  It was stupid and unsafe wise but also over a year ago. Worse things have been said by current MPs and newspapers about Corbz. The only reason it has resurfaced now is due to their 'free palestine, f**k israel' statement at Coachella.

 

The Hamas and Hezbollah stuff, sorry I can't get outraged by it I'm afraid. Both are involved in armed resistance against occupation. I don't support or condone either organisation, or agree with their tactics, I don't agree with violence of any sort (and to note the UK started bombing Yemen yesterday - but that's all ok), but IMHO you cannot police how the oppressed fight their oppressor. You can comfortably label the terrorists from your place in the UK, like we did the IRA and the ANC, but it is undoubtedly true that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. When you have exhausted civil resistance, where do you go when you are subject to apartheid, arbitrary detention, and killing without consequence or justice? Our views are skewed by a western lens and being the colonisers. It is also true that context is everything and our Government's support of genocide should be opposed. 

 

Looking forward to seeing them at West Holts. Will be really sh*t if Glastonbury capitulate. 

[The Nal]

3 hours ago, Colorblindjames said:

Conversely there has been a significant uptick in Irish language interest and Kneecap have helped this especially among young people. 
 

Like it’s easy to just dismiss Kneecap for their Republicianism and laughably compare them to the wolfetones but all that does is miss the significant impact they are having elsewhere. 

 

So because a few more people are speaking Irish its ok for them to call for people to be murdered?

[Physical_graffiti]

33 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

 

 

Sorry for the long post. I just think you're taking the wrong end of the stick of what I'm saying and I want to be clear.

all good man. I honestly wasn't deliberately misrepresenting you or whatever, I assumed this conversation was about whether they should be cancelled from glastonbury or not.  I suppose I was just coming at it from, I don't really care what they said because I didn't take it seriously and don't think anyone should

 

So yeah all things considered we probably both agree they shouldn't be cancelled from glastonbury and also both agree saying "up hamas" on stage isn't necessarily wise 😄 

[Colorblindjames]

5 minutes ago, The Nal said:

 

So because a few more people are speaking Irish its ok for them to call for people to be murdered?

Where did I say that? My point was in relation to a comment dismissing Kneecap as just being popular in Ireland because they are republicans. 
 

they called for people to be murdered in the same way the smiths called for DJs to be hanged I.e. they didn’t. 

[Levitz]

6 minutes ago, The Nal said:

 

So because a few more people are speaking Irish its ok for them to call for people to be murdered?

 

They said something stupid, the Daily Mail had an article headline 'Labour must kill vampire Jeremy Corbyn'. Jess Phillips said she wanted to 'knife him in the front'. It's selective outrage driven (pro Israel groups) to distract from what is actually happening. 

[Skip997]

14 minutes ago, Levitz said:

Sorry, but their 'kill your MP' statement was clearly not serious, said with a smirk at the end of a gig. They are lads from West Belfast who have a specific relationship with the UK Govt.  It was stupid and unsafe wise but also over a year ago. Worse things have been said by current MPs and newspapers about Corbz. The only reason it has resurfaced now is due to their 'free palestine, f**k israel' statement at Coachella.

 

The Hamas and Hezbollah stuff, sorry I can't get outraged by it I'm afraid. Both are involved in armed resistance against occupation. I don't support or condone either organisation, or agree with their tactics, I don't agree with violence of any sort (and to note the UK started bombing Yemen yesterday - but that's all ok), but IMHO you cannot police how the oppressed fight their oppressor. You can comfortably label the terrorists from your place in the UK, like we did the IRA and the ANC, but it is undoubtedly true that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. When you have exhausted civil resistance, where do you go when you are subject to apartheid, arbitrary detention, and killing without consequence or justice? Our views are skewed by a western lens and being the colonisers. It is also true that context is everything and our Government's support of genocide should be opposed. 

 

Looking forward to seeing them at West Holts. Will be really sh*t if Glastonbury capitulate. 

Out of reactions, but this is a serious contender for the best post in the history of efesters. 

[TheDayman]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

huh? you were defining their working classness due to The Troubles...that's all.

 

I didn’t say they’re working class because of the Troubles—I said they grew up in West Belfast, where that historical and social context matters. As I’ve said, context is everything.

 

You dismissed them on the basis that they weren’t old enough to have experienced the Troubles firsthand, as if that invalidates the political or cultural identity shaped by growing up in its shadow.

 

That kind of logic is hypocritical—especially if you support Israel’s claim to land based on a 3,000-year-old religious text, while rejecting the legitimacy of a political stance shaped by events from just a few decades ago.

[fraybentos1]

33 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

You believe the met police and not the Quakers? 

What do you mean? I’m not sure Youth Demand or whatever are even denying planning disruptive action?

 

If you’re gonna plan to block roads in London then you can’t be shocked if the police don’t want you to do so.

[smogo]

If nothing else, it would look ridiculous to cancel their appearance over something that was said in November 2023, when they were allowed to play Glastonbury in, erm, June 2024.

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, smogo said:

If nothing else, it would look ridiculous to cancel their appearance over something that was said in November 2023, when they were allowed to play Glastonbury in, erm, June 2024.

That is pretty daft to be fair and I think it’s possible to simultaneously think what they’ve said is wrong and also that it’s up to the fest whether they play, not the government 

[Levitz]

8 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

What do you mean? I’m not sure Youth Demand or whatever are even denying planning disruptive action?

 

If you’re gonna plan to block roads in London then you can’t be shocked if the police don’t want you to do so.

You can also agree that it’s a ridiculous, oppressive law against freedom to protest which should have no place in a democratic country. 

[TheDayman]

1 hour ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

I just find it strange people are so resolute in this that they don't think it was massively idiotic to literally be on a stage and shout "Up Hamas" when they're making a point specifically about Palestine.

 

I’ve said elsewhere - and I’ll say again - I was disappointed they said it.
 

That said, I also believe it was a deliberately provocative act aimed at drawing attention to the hypocrisy in Western political discourse: how some forms of violence are accepted - or even celebrated - when carried out by states, while any expression of solidarity with the oppressed is instantly vilified. As @Levitz alluded to earlier, “freedom fighter” versus “terrorist” often depends on who’s writing the headlines.
 

Hamas is widely condemned – why? Because of its use of violence - rocket attacks, suicide bombings, and a charter that includes anti-Israel rhetoric. These are valid concerns, and many people, including pro-Palestinians, reject Hamas’s methods.

 

But the hypocrisy lies in how state violence - like Israel's bombing of civilian infrastructure, mass displacement, and systemic apartheid policies - is often defended or ignored by the same critics. When a non-state actor kills civilians, it’s “terrorism”; when a state does it with vastly greater firepower, it’s called “self-defence.”
 

The outrage is selective, and that’s what Kneecap are attempting to provoke people to confront, clumsily or not.

Edited April 30, 2025 by TheDayman

[Skip997]

17 minutes ago, Levitz said:

You can also agree that it’s a ridiculous, oppressive law against freedom to protest which should have no place in a democratic country. 

Again spot on.

 

People need to wake up and realise that our freedoms are quickly and quietly being eroded, not to protect the people but to uphold the wishes of the ruling classes and corporations. 

[fraybentos1]

4 minutes ago, Levitz said:

You can also agree that it’s a ridiculous, oppressive law against freedom to protest which should have no place in a democratic country. 

People have every right to protest and we see it literally every week in the U.K. you don’t have the right to block roads tho