Kneecap

[hjwright]

1 hour ago, Physical_graffiti said:

You understand that these aren't literal manifestos published by Kneecap. Snoop Dogg raps about murdering policemen but I strongly doubt he wants us all to go out and do that. Very easy to take strong political statements in art as literal, totally devoid of context and nuance (they actually dealt with it in the film with the slightly less offensive 'Brits out'.

Anyway they've cleared up exactly this in their released statement - that actually they don't support Hamas or think we should kills MPs. It feels a bit ridiculous that that needed to be said but I suppose people do take things literally, hence this thread.

Snoop Dogg raps about murdering police officers, kneecap tell people to kill their local tory MP. 

Do you understand the difference?

[Nobby's Old Boots]

2 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

 

It was actually me who met that person and it was a very productive conversation.

 

But there in lies the point - while we can appreciate that some dialogue may make another person uncomfortable, it should prompt conversation and healthy debate and not censorship.

 

To put it another way, I would have felt very uncomfortable if I didn’t see support for the people of Gaza/Palestine and will be very disappointed if GFL don’t take a stronger stance this year.

I understand you would have felt uncomfortable with that, but if an act was to vocally show support for the Israeli government and the IDF, would you be happy for them to remain on the lineup, even if they later claimed they didn't mean what they said? 

[JonSnow]

Its like we've all just forgot the Glasto Latino stage lineup has just been announced 😞

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, THEWILDBOYS said:

Do you support zionism?

Only as performance art 

[TheDayman]

2 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

I understand you would have felt uncomfortable with that, but if an act was to vocally show support for the Israeli government and the IDF, would you be happy for them to remain on the lineup, even if they later claimed they didn't mean what they said? 

I suppose that really needs more context - if someone wanted to vocally show support for the Israeli Government and the actions of the IDF, I would equate that to supporting Hamas/Hezbollah - which I’ve been clear that I am very disappointed the lads did.

 

I don’t agree with censorship though so it would be up to them to back up why they support, be it Hamas/Hezbollah or the Israeli Government/IDF.

 

In the case of Kneecap, they have now made a statement to say they don’t support these terrorist organisations. I’m yet to see anyone here who is so vocal against Kneecap voice a similar position about the actions of the Israeli Government/IDF. 

[Blisterpack]

10 minutes ago, THEWILDBOYS said:

Do you support zionism?

I support Israel’s absolute right to exist and to defend itself. As do the majority in this country. I also believe Netanyahu is the worst kind of opportunistic crook politician who is making successive bad political judgements. I also believe that anybody even joking about support for Hezbollah/Hamas - who have a constitutional commitment to destroy Jews, not just Israel (home to half the world’s Jews) - runs the risk of being seen as antisemitic. 
Do you think I am wrong to believe that? 

[Colorblindjames]

4 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I support Israel’s absolute right to exist and to defend itself. As do the majority in this country. I also believe Netanyahu is the worst kind of opportunistic crook politician who is making successive bad political judgements. I also believe that anybody even joking about support for Hezbollah/Hamas - who have a constitutional commitment to destroy Jews, not just Israel (home to half the world’s Jews) - runs the risk of being seen as antisemitic. 
Do you think I am wrong to believe that? 

Do you support what Israel is doing at the moment which clearly isn’t defending itself? 

[Nobby's Old Boots]

8 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

I suppose that really needs more context - if someone wanted to vocally show support for the Israeli Government and the actions of the IDF, I would equate that to supporting Hamas/Hezbollah - which I’ve been clear that I am very disappointed the lads did.

 

I don’t agree with censorship though so it would be up to them to back up why they support, be it Hamas/Hezbollah or the Israeli Government/IDF.

 

In the case of Kneecap, they have now made a statement to say they don’t support these terrorist organisations. I’m yet to see anyone here who is so vocal against Kneecap voice a similar position about the actions of the Israeli Government/IDF. 

I haven't seen anyone show support for them either and that wasn't in any way what I'm implying, I just do not believe that people would be in the freedom of speech camp if it was someone voicing disturbing opinions on the other side of this argument, but I doubt it will ever happen so we will probably never know.

 

Yes, they have made a statement to say they don't support these terrorist organisations but haven't actually explained why they clearly DID show support for them, even if it was the only time they did it, and have just claimed that it is all taken out of context, but I'm yet to see any proof or explanation of that. I think it's a bit too convenient to just let them off the hook for that when that part of the statement is very disingenuous, even if the rest (regarding MPs etc) does seem genuine and in line with their overall message.

Edited April 29, 2025 by Nobby's Old Boots

[Mand3]

6 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I support Israel’s absolute right to exist and to defend itself. As do the majority in this country. I also believe Netanyahu is the worst kind of opportunistic crook politician who is making successive bad political judgements. I also believe that anybody even joking about support for Hezbollah/Hamas - who have a constitutional commitment to destroy Jews, not just Israel (home to half the world’s Jews) - runs the risk of being seen as antisemitic. 
Do you think I am wrong to believe that? 

What I saw last night on that doc wasn't defensive 

[Blisterpack]

Just now, Colorblindjames said:

Do you support what Israel is doing at the moment which clearly isn’t defending itself? 

It is defending itself. Do I agree with how they are doing it? No. They should absolutely be working with regional partners (mainly those they have been fighting in the past and have sort of reconciled with) and come to a settlement. I don’t think Netanyahu is equipped for that though. 

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, Mand3 said:

What I saw last night on that doc wasn't defensive 

I agree. They are exploitative criminals. They don’t have the support of the majority of Israelis by the way. 

[foolee]

1 hour ago, Physical_graffiti said:

You understand that these aren't literal manifestos published by Kneecap. Snoop Dogg raps about murdering policemen but I strongly doubt he wants us all to go out and do that. Very easy to take strong political statements in art as literal, totally devoid of context and nuance (they actually dealt with it in the film with the slightly less offensive 'Brits out'.

Anyway they've cleared up exactly this in their released statement - that actually they don't support Hamas or think we should kills MPs. It feels a bit ridiculous that that needed to be said but I suppose people do take things literally, hence this thread.

This ^^^^ 100% spot on 👌

[TheDayman]

3 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I support Israel’s absolute right to exist and to defend itself. As do the majority in this country. I also believe Netanyahu is the worst kind of opportunistic crook politician who is making successive bad political judgements. I also believe that anybody even joking about support for Hezbollah/Hamas - who have a constitutional commitment to destroy Jews, not just Israel (home to half the world’s Jews) - runs the risk of being seen as antisemitic. 
Do you think I am wrong to believe that? 

I don’t want to pull this thread to far away from the topic but I could also ask, what defines defending oneself? We’ve gone far beyond that now.

 

I also don’t think the answers are as binary as you’re making it out. For example, Kneecaps republicanism doesn’t mean the they hate British people, they’re against British rule. So in the same sentiment, any misdirected support for Hamas/Hezbollah was against Jewish people but rather Israeli Government oppression.

[fraybentos1]

36 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

So now education equals support?

 

And yes, it’s most definitely also a wind up too. A great one at that.

What 'education' is there from a wind up picture of a man pretending to read a book in a balaclava and taking a pic of it?

[itschris]

17 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I support Israel’s absolute right to exist and to defend itself. As do the majority in this country. I also believe Netanyahu is the worst kind of opportunistic crook politician who is making successive bad political judgements. I also believe that anybody even joking about support for Hezbollah/Hamas - who have a constitutional commitment to destroy Jews, not just Israel (home to half the world’s Jews) - runs the risk of being seen as antisemitic. 
Do you think I am wrong to believe that? 

I think you are wrong to believe it is at all proportional, it is no longer defence, its now mass murder and attempted racial extermination.

[lemons]

BBC changing the article photo of them at an awards to infront of a burning cop car mural 

[TheDayman]

7 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

I haven't seen anyone show support for them either and that wasn't in any way what I'm implying, I just do not believe that people would be in the freedom of speech camp if it was someone voicing disturbing opinions on the other side of this argument, but I doubt it will ever happen so we will probably never know.

 

Yes, they have made a statement to say they don't support these terrorist organisations but haven't actually explained why they clearly DID show support for them, even if it was the only time they did it, and have just claimed that it is all taken out of context, but I'm yet to see any proof or explanation of that. I think it's a bit too convenient to just let them off the hook for that when that part of the statement is very disingenuous, even if the rest (regarding MPs etc) does seem genuine and in line with their overall message.

There’s still plenty of support for the ideology of the IRA in Ireland but that doesn’t mean those same Irish people support terrorism against the British.

 

Kneecap have always been very clear and consistent that they do not support violence (the MP comment being the only time one member stupidly said something violent). This appears to have been lost amongst the outrage.

[Nobby's Old Boots]

2 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

There’s still plenty of support for the ideology of the IRA in Ireland but that doesn’t mean those same Irish people support terrorism against the British.

 

Kneecap have always been very clear and consistent that they do not support violence (the MP comment being the only time one member stupidly said something violent). This appears to have been lost amongst the outrage.

Don't disagree with any of that, but there is still no explanation for why they said Up Hamas etc and for why people are prepared to accept that they are claiming it was taken out of context.

[TheDayman]

13 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

It is defending itself. Do I agree with how they are doing it? No. They should absolutely be working with regional partners (mainly those they have been fighting in the past and have sort of reconciled with) and come to a settlement. I don’t think Netanyahu is equipped for that though. 

Come on now. I mean I’m not going to throw up every example to refute this but let’s simply sit with the fact that food, water and aid has also been blocked from entering into Gaza with many agencies inside having now completely run out. That’s indefensible. 

[Nobby's Old Boots]

12 minutes ago, foolee said:

This ^^^^ 100% spot on 👌

How is it spot on?? 

They haven't apologised for showing support for Hamas, they appear to be lying by saying they never have and it's all taken out of context. Where is the evidence or explanation for this?

 

They said it, they should own up to it rather than blaming a conspiracy against them.

 

 

[THEWILDBOYS]

17 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

It is defending itself. Do I agree with how they are doing it? No. They should absolutely be working with regional partners (mainly those they have been fighting in the past and have sort of reconciled with) and come to a settlement. I don’t think Netanyahu is equipped for that though. 

Yeah those thousands of children are such a threat, so glad Israel has defended itself against them

[Mand3]

21 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I agree. They are exploitative criminals. They don’t have the support of the majority of Israelis by the way. 

So they themselves are terrorists? Committing a genocide and war crimes. 

[TheDayman]

3 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Don't disagree with any of that, but there is still no explanation for why they said Up Hamas etc and for why people are prepared to accept that they are claiming it was taken out of context.

Anytime “The Fields of Athenry” is sang there’s always a few who will sing “Sinn Fein” and “IRA” during the chorus but I don’t see that as them supporting the violence of the IRA. Neither do I feel somebody listening or singing any one of the many pro IRA songs by the Wolftones (the best example being “Celtic Symphony” where the chorus is literally “Oh ah up the ‘RA”) as being pro violence either.

 

It’s stupid alright. As was chanting “Up Hamas”.

 

What’s really frustrating is that it complete takes over the narrative. All the other side wants is for those calling out Kneecap (and probably rightly so) to also call out what’s happening in Gaza.

 

It seems crazy to me that we can have such back and forth over what a band said while we’re seemingly closed lipped on the fact that more than 10 children are killed a day in Gaza.

[TheDayman]

27 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

What 'education' is there from a wind up picture of a man pretending to read a book in a balaclava and taking a pic of it?

So you don’t believe he read the book and this is simply a photo op?

[Blisterpack]

6 minutes ago, Mand3 said:

So they themselves are terrorists? Committing a genocide and war crimes. 

They are a group who should be held to account by their government, this is my point - we expect more of Israel and Netanyahu is showing no moral leadership. We expect only bad from hamas and hezbollah tho and they rarely disappoint. 
I do remember a time when Israel had more moderate leadership though and their enemies attacked them from all sides so it’s a difficult one to square in that respect.