news & politics:discussion

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, Copperface said:

That;s not to forget the other fifteen active currently operational reactors at four major sites in Ukraine.

One little accident due to conflict could unleash a radioactive cloud that could clearly drift over into NATO territories. Would not put that past Putin in his current state at all and fits his hybrid grey warfare model. 

Contaminating a western state without use of nuclear weapons and the simple answer of claiming an 'accident'.

We all got withdrawn from Kyiv eight days ago along with US and Canadian colleagues and that was definitely a topic that was raised on the journey out by people who are expert in these things. Think it's the first time there's been major conflict in a country with nuclear capacity.

Ugh fucking hell. That is grim. Thanks for the insight, glad you are all safe.

[Zoo Music Girl]

58 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

could also drift over Russia too though, right?

Does he care about that though?

[Ozanne]

Shit. 

[Ozanne]

 

[Copperface]

8 hours ago, steviewevie said:

could also drift over Russia too though, right?

Yeah.....causing such damage intentionally with a possible outcome like that is unlikely. ( Although Vlad does come across as a bit of a zealot at the moment)

It's more having massive nuclear plants in an active conflict zone that sounds alarms and makes it a real contingency that can't be planned for if anything happened.

There would be limited infrastructure or ability to respond to an accident and try to control an incident, unlike in other well known cases, which makes this just one of the concerning and unique aspects of all of this.

Lovely country, lovely cities (Kyiv, Odesa etc) and lovely people and awful to see what is happening. They're tough cookies though and really determined and this could drag on for months/years yet. 

Not sure I see myself getting back out there any time soon.  

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Copperface

[steviewevie]

Up early because I have a full on cold and a head full of snot and can't sleep.

Anyway, enough about me, back to the war. Sounds like Russia is going to take Kyiv soon. How much are Ukrainians going to fight back? If the city is full of civilians maybe better to surrender the city...for now? Is this going to turn into a guerilla war, and street fighting? Could be carnage. If does carry on, how long do the west look on and not get involved? Nato does not want to fight Russia because that could really trigger WW3...but it can stand by and watch a supposed ally get destroyed? What a disaster.

[Copperface]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Up early because I have a full on cold and a head full of snot and can't sleep.

Anyway, enough about me, back to the war. Sounds like Russia is going to take Kyiv soon. How much are Ukrainians going to fight back? If the city is full of civilians maybe better to surrender the city...for now? Is this going to turn into a guerilla war, and street fighting? Could be carnage. If does carry on, how long do the west look on and not get involved? Nato does not want to fight Russia because that could really trigger WW3...but it can stand by and watch a supposed ally get destroyed? What a disaster.

I got back and immediately caught Covid. Still suffering but hopefully on the other side of it now.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Copperface said:

I got back and immediately caught Covid. Still suffering but hopefully on the other side of it now.

oof. Hope you're ok. I have taken a few LFTs but all negative, think it's just a head cold.

so you were in Ukraine? How was it? Did people think Russia would actually invade? Kept seeing news reports saying life was normal in Ukraine as if it was all an overreaction by the west. You know people still there?

[steviewevie]

Doesn't sound like Russia will get excluded from SWIFT...looks like UK government pushing for it but others in G7/EU pusing back...especially Germany. I guess too much self damage. I guess this sort of stuff is why Putin not that bothered about sanctions, stuff so intertwined that many sanctions hurt western economies as well as Russia.

[Ozanne]

This is a genuine question, do sanctions ever work?

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This is a genuine question, do sanctions ever work?

Helped to end apartheid in South Africa?

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This is a genuine question, do sanctions ever work?

I guess they hope that Russia becomes more unstable and Putin gets desposed...

Edited February 25, 2022 by steviewevie

[Zoo Music Girl]

9 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Shit. 

I feel sorry for Zelensky, without knowing too much about the guy. He must feel he can't leave but he's probably going to be killed isn't he? Shame he couldn't get his family out earlier.

In answer to my own question yesterday, this is interesting:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/russia-want-take-chernobyl-rcna17615

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I feel sorry for Zelensky, without knowing too much about the guy. He must feel he can't leave but he's probably going to be killed isn't he? Shame he couldn't get his family out earlier.

 

That Zelensky bloke is maybe a bit out of his depth with all this...? He was a comedy actor playing the president before becoming president. So surreal.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

30 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

That Zelensky bloke is maybe a bit out of his depth with all this...? He was a comedy actor playing the president before becoming president. So surreal.

Yeah it's mad. Although does sort of fit in with the likes of Trump and Boris taking the celeb to PM/president route. And of course Reagan before.

They just seem so isolated really. Really shit.

Hope you feel better Stevie. Am having trouble sleeping generally as the moment and was up in the middle of the night reading about all this. Probably not good before a day of work but ah well.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Zoo Music Girl

[Neil]

12 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

local Bristol news has shown an anti war protest in Bristol, done by Russian students in Bristol.

[Neil]

good to see they're levelling up round my way...:) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-60478064

[gigpusher]

Just been chatting to one of my Ukrainian colleagues today. He's in Lviv and it seems a lot of my other colleagues are on their way there due to it's proximity to the Polish border although no men between 18-60 are allowed to leave the country now. 

He's very angry. He said Ukraine was on it's way to being an EU peaceful country. He actually has Russian/Polish/Jewish roots but says that the idea that Putin is saying he is doing what he is doing to protect him is absolute rubbish. He wishes protests in Russia were bigger. 

To be honest given how Russian people can be treated if they protest I was actually surprised that as many of them had protested as they had. 

Sounds like all our colleagues for safe for now. Keeping everything crossed that it remains that way. 

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

To be honest given how Russian people can be treated if they protest I was actually surprised that as many of them had protested as they had. 

thats good means Putin isn't as safe as you were thinking.

[gigpusher]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

thats good means Putin isn't as safe as you were thinking.

Yes my one hope is that he has overplayed his hand and this will prove to be his undoing. I just hope too many people don't have to die for it to happen. My colleague is very worried about what could happen if China get involved. 

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

Yes my one hope is that he has overplayed his hand and this will prove to be his undoing. I just hope too many people don't have to die for it to happen. My colleague is very worried about what could happen if China get involved. 

china have been told they can have taiwan.

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, gigpusher said:

Yes my one hope is that he has overplayed his hand and this will prove to be his undoing. I just hope too many people don't have to die for it to happen. My colleague is very worried about what could happen if China get involved. 

That's the core of it and the one thing I still don't get - is this all just Putin? The personal vendetta of a very powerful man? Ten years ago I'd have said that wasn't possible, but we've seen with Trump that it's possible for an individual to ascend to the highest office of state with personal opinions and goals that aren't even supported by his own team. If Trump had Putin's level of control who knows what would have happened.

If Putin goes, do cooler heads prevail? Or is this more of a China situation, where there's enough general support in government for the way things are done that someone else would pick up the mantle pretty swiftly?

[efcfanwirral]

2 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I feel sorry for Zelensky, without knowing too much about the guy. He must feel he can't leave but he's probably going to be killed isn't he? Shame he couldn't get his family out earlier.

In answer to my own question yesterday, this is interesting:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/russia-want-take-chernobyl-rcna17615

I doubt he'll be killed. Not convinced the end point of this is going to be a slaughter