news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

 

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Was in town so went along to Ukraine protest for a while..lots of speeches in Ukrainian and English, and one in Russian. All felt a bit sad and desperate 

Well done. I wanted to go along to show support but had plans I couldn't really bail on. Likewise tomorrow. If I was free was definitely going to pop along (easier said than done I know).

[Guest]

 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

yeah..interesting how this all plays out domestically. No doubt these sanctions will exacerbate the cost of living crisis...will govt be able to pass this off as necessary pain to punish Russia? And if Russia is going to continue to be perceived as a threat to europe does that mean more defence spending here...and if so does that come at the expense of spending elsewhere? And then have to see if voters rally behind the govt like they did during the pandemic, or if they just get sick of the constant shit and want something new. We don't know where this whole this going, the repercussions could be widespread, and could be massive.

[mattiloy]

32 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah..interesting how this all plays out domestically. No doubt these sanctions will exacerbate the cost of living crisis...will govt be able to pass this off as necessary pain to punish Russia? And if Russia is going to continue to be perceived as a threat to europe does that mean more defence spending here...and if so does that come at the expense of spending elsewhere? And then have to see if voters rally behind the govt like they did during the pandemic, or if they just get sick of the constant shit and want something new. We don't know where this whole this going, the repercussions could be widespread, and could be massive.

It is a gift for Starmer. In every conceivable way.

Internationalism, solidarity, *white* asylum seekers being turned away, tory russian connections/sleeze, economic turmoil, slander the left and corbyn and a new tool with which to remove detractors within the party.

As long as the war stays in ukraine and particularly if it gets messy and drawn out, its a gift for him.

I’m a bit interested though by Whether it will win votes off the SNP. On the one hand you have a big bully nation not letting a smaller neighbour have their independence which undoubtedly conjures feelings of sympathy for the right to self determination for smaller plucky fledgling nations.  On the other hand, the realised threat of foreign menaces can play well with the unity is strength argument, and since its russia, particularly in respect of the trident shiz.

Edited February 26, 2022 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

27 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

It is a gift for Starmer. In every conceivable way.

Internationalism, solidarity, *white* asylum seekers being turned away, tory russian connections/sleeze, economic turmoil, slander the left and corbyn and a new tool with which to remove detractors within the party.

As long as the war stays in ukraine and particularly if it gets messy and drawn out, its a gift for him.

I’m a bit interested though by Whether it will win votes off the SNP. On the one hand you have a big bully nation not letting a smaller neighbour have their independence which undoubtedly conjures feelings of sympathy for the right to self determination for smaller plucky fledgling nations.  On the other hand, the realised threat of foreign menaces can play well with the unity is strength argument, and since its russia, particularly in respect of the trident shiz.

Are labour more trusted with defence type stuff than Tories? Not so sure.

[steviewevie]

I also think it makes fuck all difference regarding Scottish independence.

I think it definitely strengthens NATO though.

[steviewevie]

Actually thinking about it maybe it makes Scottish independence less likely.

[steviewevie]

Immigration minister said that some Ukrainian refugees can come here to pick fruit.

[mattiloy]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Actually thinking about it maybe it makes Scottish independence less likely.

Yeah it remains to be seen. But if winning elections is about capturing the zeitgeist, the hangover from the wars of 2000s was the move towards unilateralism, isolationism, nationalism and away from the globalist, internationalist, interventionist malarkey. And that stuff might just start being trendy again after this. Add in the nukes question and it puts the SNP out of step with the current mood music.

[steviewevie]

That EU swift thing is kind of a big deal, especially for those countries buying all that gas from Russia.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yeah..interesting how this all plays out domestically. No doubt these sanctions will exacerbate the cost of living crisis...will govt be able to pass this off as necessary pain to punish Russia? And if Russia is going to continue to be perceived as a threat to europe does that mean more defence spending here...and if so does that come at the expense of spending elsewhere? And then have to see if voters rally behind the govt like they did during the pandemic, or if they just get sick of the constant shit and want something new. We don't know where this whole this going, the repercussions could be widespread, and could be massive.

It doesn’t look like voters are rallying behind the government yet and why should they? This government have shown utter contempt for the public in recent months and quite a few won’t vote Tory whilst Johnson is in charge. 

[steviewevie]

Also EU freezing transactions to/from Russian central bank. Blimey.

[Guest]

Jeez. 

[Guest]

Johnson once again forced into doing the right thing. 

[steviewevie]

Morning. Looks like Russia still not taken Kyiv, but have taken a few other cities and blown up some gas and oil fields. Still doesn't look like overall victory in sight for Putin though...so god knows how this ends. Russia's economy could well collapse if all these sanctions are as tough as they sound.

[steviewevie]

9 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Yeah it remains to be seen. But if winning elections is about capturing the zeitgeist, the hangover from the wars of 2000s was the move towards unilateralism, isolationism, nationalism and away from the globalist, internationalist, interventionist malarkey. And that stuff might just start being trendy again after this. Add in the nukes question and it puts the SNP out of step with the current mood music.

maybe...different times though. In 2000s with Iraq it was US/UK acting unilaterally without much support from the rest of the world...and even then not sure that was the main reason for all the populist nationalism, think that was the 2008 crash. This time the world seems pretty united in condeming Russia, even China is not being fully supportive as expected.

But, I also think if suddenly there is a new cold war and Russia poses a threat to europe, many in Scotland would prefer to stay as part of UK and suddenly independence seems less of a priority.

Or they see England as Russia to their plucky little Ukraine!

[squirrelarmy]

10 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Johnson once again forced into doing the right thing. 

At least he won’t have to reveal which of his friends “loaned” money from the government. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/26/names-of-firms-given-huge-covid-loans-will-be-secret

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

At least he won’t have to reveal which of his friends “loaned” money from the government. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/26/names-of-firms-given-huge-covid-loans-will-be-secret

 

Has there ever been a more protected man in the history of our country?

[Guest]

 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

...Nato does not want to fight Russia militarily, because where does that lead..? massive war in europe with 10s of thousands dead? and Putin knows this. And now Russia will likely try and decapitate Ukraine's leadership and try and put in a puppet govt...but the population of Ukraine will likely never accept this...and maybe eventually Putin will fail somehow. I guess that is the best the west can hope for.

[BobWillis2]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

 

He hasn’t listened to the interview has he? He’s just seen the tweet and responded to that quote. 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

This is incredible!

[tigger123]