news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

Plus, recently from what I've seen when people are asked what is most important to them it seems to be NHS, crime, illegal assylum seekers, closed shops...immigration doesn't seem to come up so much. Maybe the realisation that the health and care services are staffed by foreigners.

[steviewevie]

 

[mattiloy]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I get it, I really do....but might mean people pay for it...which maybe a lot of people will not like.

 

Maybe so but polling shows that most people want less immigration and that it is usually amongst the top issues that people vote on.

Given the growing instability in the geopolitical sphere along with more competition for sparser resources/liveable land due to climate change, things will probably get worse.

[Ozanne]

2 hours ago, Gingerfish79 said:

Even when the Tories offer Starmer and Labour a free shot they go all 'England in a penalty shoot-out' and balls it up. Starmer really needs to go, he cant lay a glove on BJ and he must surely realise that now. He should jump now so that there is time for somebody else to make an impact before the election, which if BJ's advisors have any sense will be sooner rather than later.

I ask this in good faith mate, I don’t mean to file anyone up but what more can Labour do right now?

Starmer has presented points why this isn’t the best solution and offered different scenario; such as taxing the wealthy more and taxing more on dividends (I think). I really don’t know what more Labour can actually do?

[Crazyfool01]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I ask this in good faith mate, I don’t mean to file anyone up but what more can Labour do right now?

Starmer has presented points why this isn’t the best solution and offered different scenario; such as taxing the wealthy more and taxing more on dividends (I think). I really don’t know what more Labour can actually do?

Surely he has enough ammunition now  to damage boris … umpteen u turns , pandemic deaths … the list goes on … he’s been way too passive of late … Boris lying ….. there’s a video that’s had 35 odd million views he can look at if he’s short of ideas ?! 

[mattiloy]

12 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I ask this in good faith mate, I don’t mean to file anyone up but what more can Labour do right now?

Starmer has presented points why this isn’t the best solution and offered different scenario; such as taxing the wealthy more and taxing more on dividends (I think). I really don’t know what more Labour can actually do?

Labour should sack the entire anonymous frontbench, Starmer included, in fact double sack Starmer.

[Ozanne]

18 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Surely he has enough ammunition now  to damage boris … umpteen u turns , pandemic deaths … the list goes on … he’s been way too passive of late … Boris lying ….. there’s a video that’s had 35 odd million views he can look at if he’s short of ideas ?! 

I agree there is tons of ammunition and Labour have been bringing a fair bit of it up. They regularly talk about the pandemic failings in the Commons. How would you like Starmer to be doing it?

This is a genuine question as I’ve seen it a little bit and I don’t know what more he can do.

The comment about the front bench are fair, they are fairly anonymous. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Ozanne

[steviewevie]

Sir Keir Starmer has said Labour is opposed to putting up national insurance to fund social care. Labour and the SNP have both tabled amendments to the resolution saying that before the new tax is implemented, the government should publish a distributional impact assessment showing how it will impact on different income groups and on different regions. An amendment has also been tabled by Richard Burgon and fellow Labour leftwingers saying the government should publish figures showing how the same sums could be raised by a wealth tax on people with assets worth more than £5m.

edit - copied this from guardian btw

Edited September 8, 2021 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The comments about the front bench are fair, they are fairly anonymous. 

see quite a bit of Reeves, Rayner, Nandy and Ashworth. I mean....we don't hear from many in actual cabinet apart from the big boys....it's all bojo and dishi rishi.

[Ozanne]

Just now, steviewevie said:

see quite a bit of Reeves, Rayner, Nandy and Ashworth. I mean....we don't hear from many in actual cabinet apart from the big boys....it's all bojo and dishi rishi.

That’s a fair point, we don’t hear about the other cabinet members a huge amount. 

[steviewevie]

Just now, Ozanne said:

That’s a fair point, we don’t hear about the other cabinet members a huge amount. 

because they're fuckin useless maybe....like Raab recently...or Patel saying something shitty but dumb just to fire up the base...or Williamson just being totally inept.

I wonder if there will be a reshuffle soon?

[steviewevie]

so...Labour are going to vote against tax rises that will mean more money for the NHS. I'm sure Bojo will bring that up again and again at the next election.

[Ozanne]

A thread on polling by Opinium on the social care tax rises and triple lock. Basically public support has collapsed for NI rises funding social care and they want an increase in capital gains tax which is what Labour are proposing. The public are also against a breaking of the triple lock.

 

[eFestivals]

Not surprised its unpopular its a tax rise without a social care plan

[efcfanwirral]

 

 

[steviewevie]

[Crazyfool01]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I’ll ask my brother in law the practicalities of that ? I think it breaks some kind of maritime law ? 

[Ryan1984]

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

9 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I can't see him going until after the next election at the earliest....expecially as there doesn't seem to be anyone obvious who could replace him.

Ah fuck I just realised I lost our bet! Fiver to charity wasn't it?

[topmarksbri]

8 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Starmer's leadership bid was well to the left of Starmer! (maybe). If Burnham was just a left wing hero Corbyn wouldn't have stood.

Corbyn stood to try and move the conversation to the left and never thought he was going to win. Burnham is soft left for sure. 

 

8 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

These polls are so meaningless because it doesn't give the public a set of options. People want better social care/NHS and don't want to pay more tax but don't see these things as being mutually exclusive (I don't think rise in NI is the correct way to do it) 

[steviewevie]

8 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Ah fuck I just realised I lost our bet! Fiver to charity wasn't it?

oh yes. To MigrationWatch please.

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

oh yes. To MigrationWatch please.

Hmm... maybe I should have put in some kind of caveats on that...

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Hmm... maybe I should have put in some kind of caveats on that...

Ok, well if you're going to be all woke...how about Greenpeace or WWF, something like that.

[Gingerfish79]

17 hours ago, Ozanne said:

I ask this in good faith mate, I don’t mean to file anyone up but what more can Labour do right now?

Starmer has presented points why this isn’t the best solution and offered different scenario; such as taxing the wealthy more and taxing more on dividends (I think). I really don’t know what more Labour can actually do?

It's not necessarily in content of his message, it's in his delivery, in his inability to cut through with the media and the electorate. What real progress has he made? Are Labour any more trusted by ex-red wall voters than they were 2 years ago? Are people even listening to him anymore? Did they ever?

Thousands and thousands of people died over the winter unnecessarily because of mistakes Johnson made. Tory sleaze has returned. We have the most hated home secretary in my memory. Cummings. Poorer people about to disproportionally pick up the tab for the pandemic and 3 manifesto pledges broken.

And yet Labour have made no real headway and cant get Johnson on the back foot.

Many Labour members were convinced to vote for him in the leadership election because 'he would be more electable'. But its now clear that he'll never be PM, not because of policy but because nobody cares what he has to say. Labour needs somebody with energy, dynamism and a determination to be heard no matter what. I don't know who that is, though Raynor as leader and Burnham as shadow chancellor would be closest in my view. But without change I'm fearful that Labour are heading for another crushing defeat under Starmer and that could be the end of it.

I don't mean to rant and its nothing personal, I just find it so disheartening.