news & politics:discussion

[Crazyfool01]

Now we send in ships ffs stay out 🥲 that’s what cleverly was up to . 

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Now we send in ships ffs stay out 🥲 that’s what cleverly was up to . 

It's frankly pathetic

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

It's frankly pathetic

We never learn 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, fraybentos1 said:

You're totally ignoring the fact that he got elected labour leader while pledging to implement some of these radical policies. He outright lied, there's no doubt about it. Don't bother saying well covid blah blah or the economic picture has changed blah blah. He had no intention of doing it. It's no wonder people are/were annoyed.

I (through my union membership) voted Starmer knowing he would go left for the party vote and move centre  when it came to the country. Candidates (left and right) have done similar things in different countries for years, I think anyone who didn’t think this was happening was a bit naive.

However happy to consider the alternative scenario where Starmer was 100 percent  honest about his plans. We have RLB as labour leader, 5  more years of the PLP split, labour getting stuck in debates about politics. While PM Bojo heads for another election win and the left slap themselves on the back saying we may be in opposition, but at least we stuck with our principles.

I get the impression the average voter is quite happy that Starmer fibbed about his pledges, at least they have a labour leader they can vote for. 
 

To me being a leader is not just about what you stand for, but making the correct decisions. Starmer could have thrown out his toys like Chuka, but stayed within the tent. He could have looked to get people singing his name in Glastonbury, but he cares more about winnning an election. He may not be charismatic, but I think he is a good politician, with good judgement and his heart is in the right place. That’s a good start for me.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

wasn't really roundly rejected in 2017.

I know of the argument you have to move to the centre to win. I actually think someone more left could win, but the problem was the person delivering the message. Jez had too much baggage, not enough charisma and couldn’t adapt. He ended in the position almost by accident, so not really his fault.

I still feel a younger (with less baggage) and more charismatic lefty could win under the right circumstances.

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Now we send in ships ffs stay out 🥲 that’s what cleverly was up to . 

ooof, something big planned. Israel do the land invasion to get Hamas...western fleets to protect area from...who? Turkey/Syria/Iran? But what about all the people living there, and there's a lot of them....?

[Skip997]

Just now, steviewevie said:

ooof, something big planned. Israel do the land invasion to get Hamas...western fleets to protect area from...who? Turkey/Syria/Iran? But what about all the people living there, and there's a lot of them....?

When has that ever been a concern?

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

When has that ever been a concern?

sure, but now it has got to a breaking point...

[steviewevie]

Did Hamas plan for this?

[SheffJeff]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

apparently very much true.

Have you got a source as apparently Israel cannot confirm these claims?

 

 

 

[Neil]

30 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

For @Neil

 

That article says that starmer said new towns on the m1 corridor  which prolly means Cambridge area, won't have many jobs to start with so wont appeal to people.

[fraybentos1]

20 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I (through my union membership) voted Starmer knowing he would go left for the party vote and move centre  when it came to the country. Candidates (left and right) have done similar things in different countries for years, I think anyone who didn’t think this was happening was a bit naive.

However happy to consider the alternative scenario where Starmer was 100 percent  honest about his plans. We have RLB as labour leader, 5  more years of the PLP split, labour getting stuck in debates about politics. While PM Bojo heads for another election win and the left slap themselves on the back saying we may be in opposition, but at least we stuck with our principles.

I get the impression the average voter is quite happy that Starmer fibbed about his pledges, at least they have a labour leader they can vote for. 
 

To me being a leader is not just about what you stand for, but making the correct decisions. Starmer could have thrown out his toys like Chuka, but stayed within the tent. He could have looked to get people singing his name in Glastonbury, but he cares more about winnning an election. He may not be charismatic, but I think he is a good politician, with good judgement and his heart is in the right place. That’s a good start for me.

Call it naive if you want, but if you were a younger Labour member who cared a lot about tuition fees for example I think they have every right to be annoyed.

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Have you got a source as apparently Israel cannot confirm these claims?

 

 

 

seen a pic posted...seen from multiple sources...you won't see on Al Jazeera though...but not sure it matters how many or how they were actually killed...

but what has been confirmed in multiple places is that Hamas militants wiped out whole villages or kibbutz, house to house...like a pogrom. It's f**king sick. It doesn't excuse any war crimes that Israel is carrying out..but people can't just ignore it, or even celebrate it. I guess some people won't believe it...my bro who is mr socialist apparently whilst earning loads of $$$ in US f**king despises Israel and is always on about the jewish lobby, or he calls it israel lobby now, controlling america..he's basically an antisemite and I can't talk to the stupid c**t anymore.

Edited October 12, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Neil said:

That article says that starmer said new towns on the m1 corridor  which prolly means Cambridge area, won't have many jobs to start with so wont appeal to people.

it can work very well negative nelly

 

[Ommadawn]

55 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Now we send in ships ffs stay out 🥲 that’s what cleverly was up to . 

Could explain the increased aircraft movements yesterday. RNAS Yeovilton is only about 20 miles away from here.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Ommadawn said:

Could explain the increased aircraft movements yesterday. RNAS Yeovilton is only about 20 miles away from here.

Just read something about 40 commando too . Who are based in Taunton 

[gizmoman]

4 hours ago, steviewevie said:

she was reporting it as he did it, not before

She said it just as he touched his cuff and was about to unbutton it, he had not begun to roll up his sleeve. She either assumed that's what he was about to do, having taken off the jacket, or had prior knowledge. Still looks strange to me, but then I'm a suspicious type.

[gizmoman]

4 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

Maybe rolling up your sleeves is a very common metaphor. Numpty.

Of course it is, what has that got to do with my point?

[steviewevie]

39 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

She said it just as he touched his cuff and was about to unbutton it, he had not begun to roll up his sleeve. She either assumed that's what he was about to do, having taken off the jacket, or had prior knowledge. Still looks strange to me, but then I'm a suspicious type.

Yes I had noticed. So the BBC are in on it too? The establishment?

[Neil]

13 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yes I had noticed. So the BBC are in on it too? The establishment?

If starmer was setting up stuff like that and briefing the beeb it would leak to other media.

[mattiloy]

8 hours ago, steviewevie said:

they probably think Palestinians would slaughter them...not sure why...?

Cool. All palestinians are murderous barbarians is it? You know if you’d have been as careless with your words about the other side, it would be enough to see you slung out of the Labour party.

My point wasnt a moral one, just realistic. A one state solution in which palestinians become full citizens of the state of israel undermines the objectives of a hard line, nationalist israeli government.

The two state solution also doesnt work because because a hard line, nationalist israeli government holds all the cards and makes unrealistic demands on territory, knowing that if they aren’t agreed it can still achieve them but more slowly in this attritional, inhumane stalemate instead.

There are only two real outcomes in that scenario. Either international support is withdrawn and foreign states force the Israeli govt to make a fair deal on a two state solution. Or the stalemate goes on until the settlers have settled all of the west bank and the gaza strip is depopulated by people fleeing as either refugees or for work.

The thing is, how do you maintain a democratic state with the stated purpose of being a jewish homeland in a geographic area where jewish people are a minority? You have to fix the demographics.

Edited October 12, 2023 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Cool. All palestinians are murderous barbarians is it? You know if you’d have been as careless with your words about the other side, it would be enough to see you slung out of the Labour party.

My point wasnt a moral one, just realistic. A one state solution in which palestinians become full citizens of the state of israel undermines the objectives of a hard line, nationalist israeli government.

The two state solution also doesnt work because because a hard line, nationalist israeli government holds all the cards and makes unrealistic demands on territory, knowing that if they aren’t agreed it can still achieve them but more slowly in this attritional, inhumane stalemate instead.

There are only two real outcomes in that scenario. Either international support is withdrawn and foreign states force the Israeli govt to make a fair deal on a two state solution. Or the stalemate goes on until the settlers have settled all of the west bank and the gaza strip is depopulated by people fleeing as either refugees or for work.

The thing is, how do you maintain a democratic state with the stated purpose of being a jewish homeland in a geographic area where jewish people are a minority? You have to fix the demographics.

Just saying how Israelis might feel.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[mattiloy]

49 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Just saying how Israelis might feel.

Ah okay. Sometimes I like to imagine things too.