news & politics:discussion

[km9]

16 hours ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

One of the unintended consequences of your permanent 'sat in front of efests instead of living a life' status is that you're capable of doing a complete one-eighty on an issue without actually realising you've done it.  A couple of years ago, you were auditioning to be be Neil's goon by accusing lifelong socialists of being anti-Semites, whilst sneering at anyone who questioned this ludicrous tabloid narrative.  Now that Neil's not worth sucking  up to, and the Labour anti-Semitism witch-hunt has quietly fizzled out, you've suddenly become a new man.  It's heartening to learn that you were actually dubious about the ridiculous anti-Semitism scandal all along.  However, you might want to check whether Neil still has the necessary forum access privileges to edit/delete your contributions on this topic from a couple of years ago...

 

Are you mark e Spliff or the toxic avenger today?

[gizmoman]

57 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

The point of disruptive protest 

 

Just Stop Oil - "Ordinary people demanding the UK Government immediately halt all new oil and gas consents and licences."

But they are not ordinary people, they are one-issue fanatics, more a cult than a political movement.

"the urgent change we need to survive" melodramatic exaggeration, I would have more sympathy if it was CND, nuclear weapons do pose a real survival threat. The guy in the video is right, if they have a legitimate argument make it, and lobby properly, maybe the reason politicians haven't done what they are demanding is that it is just not realistic, at least in the short term.

[lost]

Thing is with stop oil is we all know it’ll be similar to shipping all our manufacturing jobs out to China, the emissions maybe not down as being produced by our country but we will still need things like liquid fuels and plastics.

We will simply be feathering Newcastle Utd and Man City’s transfer kitties by importing the stuff instead 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

20 minutes ago, lost said:

Thing is with stop oil 

We will simply be feathering Newcastle Utd and Man City’s transfer kitties by importing the stuff instead 

I dint follow football. Is this a transfer kitty?

[steviewevie]

22 minutes ago, lost said:

Thing is with stop oil is we all know it’ll be similar to shipping all our manufacturing jobs out to China, the emissions maybe not down as being produced by our country but we will still need things like liquid fuels and plastics.

We will simply be feathering Newcastle Utd and Man City’s transfer kitties by importing the stuff instead 

everyone needs to stop oil and find alternatives.

Simple.

[steviewevie]

41 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Just Stop Oil - "Ordinary people demanding the UK Government immediately halt all new oil and gas consents and licences."

But they are not ordinary people, they are one-issue fanatics, more a cult than a political movement.

"the urgent change we need to survive" melodramatic exaggeration, I would have more sympathy if it was CND, nuclear weapons do pose a real survival threat. The guy in the video is right, if they have a legitimate argument make it, and lobby properly, maybe the reason politicians haven't done what they are demanding is that it is just not realistic, at least in the short term.

Labour are literally promising to do what they are demanding...(sort of).

[steviewevie]

[gizmoman]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Labour are literally promising to do what they are demanding...(sort of).

Well, if they are promising it I'm sure it will happen, after all, no political party has ever gone back on an election promise have they?

[gizmoman]

The point is, there is no viable alternative to oil and gas in the short to medium term, if we do go for more renewables and or nuclear we would then need to massively increase the electricity grid as these technologies produce electricity which needs to be transported to the user, replacing all the oil and gas energy needed to heat our homes and run vehicles will take decades even with increased insulation and efficiency savings.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

The point is, there is no viable alternative to oil and gas in the short to medium term, if we do go for more renewables and or nuclear we would then need to massively increase the electricity grid as these technologies produce electricity which needs to be transported to the user, replacing all the oil and gas energy needed to heat our homes and run vehicles will take decades even with increased insulation and efficiency savings.

yeah, well they're not talking about switching off the gas...just stopping new oil/gas developments...the transition is going to take decades 

[Crazyfool01]

19 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, well they're not talking about switching off the gas...just stopping new oil/gas developments...the transition is going to take decades 

There’s also onshore wind 

[gizmoman]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, well they're not talking about switching off the gas...just stopping new oil/gas developments...the transition is going to take decades 

They want to do it in 8 years,

"In eight years we need to end our reliance on fossil fuels completely."

https://juststopoil.org/background/

 

[Mark E. Spliff]

1 hour ago, km9 said:

Are you mark e Spliff or the toxic avenger today?

This is the second time this week you've flagged this up, so I'll respond, however I think my austere forum presence over the years means there's only a very small group of my nemeses who'd be at all interested - I've never been a forum 'character.'  My 'Toxic Avenger' sock-puppet account got blown by Neil years ago on its very first outing as I didn't bother trying to hide IP addresses or block/delete cookies etc.  He called me out publicly but, unusually, didn't delete either of my accounts, which was a reflection on Stu - the bloke I'd set it up to annoy.  This did also leave the 'Toxic Avenger' available to later annoy a certain 'km9' after he swooped in with a 'downvote the lefty' move, without actually commenting on whatever political handbag battle was being waged.  But in the spirit of apologising for old forum crimes: sorry.  Prior to the forum removing user rep 'badge of shame' from users' posts, downvoting could be a reliable source of fun: without fail, the users who gave out downvotes would also be the ones who'd be nailing themselves to crosses if someone dared give them one.  Halcyon days.

[collectivisedfarming]

17 hours ago, steviewevie said:

What I was kind of talking about was the arguments from different sides of the left on Twitter recently with the antisemitism thing... including with those I have seen who have accused starmer and co of being both zionist and antisemitic.

Starmer is a Zionist, he's made this clear himself, it's hardly an accusation. Anyone who is a member of Labour Friends of Israel which includes some of his front bench iirc could be reasonably assumed to be one too. 

There is also nothing inherently wrong in theory with being a Zionist and I say this as a supporter of a Palestinian State and BDS.

That Zionism's predominant modern incarnation is used to brutally oppress the Palestinians doesn't mean that originally it was not in part (with the exclusion of Christian Zionism which is Antisemitic) an anti-racist response to Antisemitism in Europe both pre and post WW2. 

 

[steviewevie]

29 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

They want to do it in 8 years,

"In eight years we need to end our reliance on fossil fuels completely."

https://juststopoil.org/background/

 

oh. well that won't happen. But the no new oil/gas thingies in N Sea will (probably). Running out in N Sea anyway, so maybe academic. I guess the idea is we'll transition away from using fossil fuels over the years and decades to come, but completely in 8 years...? nah.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, collectivisedfarming said:

Starmer is a Zionist, he's made this clear himself, it's hardly an accusation. Anyone who is a member of Labour Friends of Israel which includes some of his front bench iirc could be reasonably assumed to be one too. 

There is also nothing inherently wrong in theory with being a Zionist and I say this as a supporter of a Palestinian State and BDS.

That Zionism's predominant modern incarnation is used to brutally oppress the Palestinians doesn't mean that originally it was not in part (with the exclusion of Christian Zionism which is Antisemitic) an anti-racist response to Antisemitism in Europe both pre and post WW2. 

 

zionists were groovy lefties once upon a time.

[collectivisedfarming]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

zionists were groovy lefties once upon a time.

Indeed, pretty sure Nye Bevan amongst them (although maybe not an especially  groovy man!)

[gizmoman]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

oh. well that won't happen. But the no new oil/gas thingies in N Sea will (probably). Running out in N Sea anyway, so maybe academic. I guess the idea is we'll transition away from using fossil fuels over the years and decades to come, but completely in 8 years...? nah.

Yep, and that is one of the reasons we should be developing a rational long term energy policy, we need a balanced system, solar and wind can be part of that but it's not always sunny or windy, As we are an island, tidal power seems like an obvious candidate for sustainable and reliable energy, the tides are predictable and constant, no unexpected outages. There are also arguments about energy independence. I'm all for investment in new green technology but Just Stop Oil are actually putting people off alternatives with their antics, if they concentrated on promoting the positive new technologies we could have instead of the hysterical doom and gloom fear mongering they might get more public support.

[km9]

44 minutes ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

This is the second time this week you've flagged this up, so I'll respond, however I think my austere forum presence over the years means there's only a very small group of my nemeses who'd be at all interested - I've never been a forum 'character.'  My 'Toxic Avenger' sock-puppet account got blown by Neil years ago on its very first outing as I didn't bother trying to hide IP addresses or block/delete cookies etc.  He called me out publicly but, unusually, didn't delete either of my accounts, which was a reflection on Stu - the bloke I'd set it up to annoy.  This did also leave the 'Toxic Avenger' available to later annoy a certain 'km9' after he swooped in with a 'downvote the lefty' move, without actually commenting on whatever political handbag battle was being waged.  But in the spirit of apologising for old forum crimes: sorry.  Prior to the forum removing user rep 'badge of shame' from users' posts, downvoting could be a reliable source of fun: without fail, the users who gave out downvotes would also be the ones who'd be nailing themselves to crosses if someone dared give them one.  Halcyon days.

Bloody hell you've got some memory 😁. 

Hope you're well 👍🏻

[squirrelarmy]

20 hours ago, Ryan1984 said:

Any sign of the Boris WhatsApps?

He’s not handed them over. But no ones talking about that seeing as the Beeb and Scum have created the biggest dead cat story we have seen for quite some time. 
 

It’s even over shadowed that Mrs Johnson the Third has popped out another sprong. 

[gizmoman]

BBC presenter sent abusive and menacing messages to second young person

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66165766

Look's like this story isn't going away anytime soon.

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, well they're not talking about switching off the gas...just stopping new oil/gas developments...the transition is going to take decades 

Labours plan is very good and is ultimately the way forward but it is worrying how many senior people in government don’t seem that bothered about climate change given we’ve recorded the hottest week ever recently. 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Yep, and that is one of the reasons we should be developing a rational long term energy policy, we need a balanced system, solar and wind can be part of that but it's not always sunny or windy, As we are an island, tidal power seems like an obvious candidate for sustainable and reliable energy, the tides are predictable and constant, no unexpected outages. There are also arguments about energy independence. I'm all for investment in new green technology but Just Stop Oil are actually putting people off alternatives with their antics, if they concentrated on promoting the positive new technologies we could have instead of the hysterical doom and gloom fear mongering they might get more public support.

I don't know if their tactics are right or wrong...they are certainly getting noticed....and in past any movement has got it's more radical disruptive groups, from the suffragettes to civil rights movement.

And for energy sources it will be a mix as you say...renewables and nuclear and fossil fuels...it is net not gross zero after all. Agree about tidal seems a no brainer, maybe it's expensive or technically difficult or something.

[Ozanne]

 

[steviewevie]