When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

Andrew Rawnsley on Johnson, Gove and Cummings...Gang of Three.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/05/the-civil-service-is-right-to-be-paranoid-about-boris-johnsons-gang-of-three

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Billy Corgan's Ego said:

The outcome of which would be different IMO

the vote result might be different, the realties of indy remain the same.

So if it happens again, let's hope the SNP aren't mis-selling again in proper Farage style. It's one thing winning the vote, it's another to win it on a lie.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Neil

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Breakouts are an indicator of success? I dont think that it does.

It wasn't? Theres 2 issues with that 1) People not Socially distancing at VE parties will spread the virus, 2) Gives the impression that social distancing is unnecessary .

I can almost guarantee that in the next few weeks weeks we will see an uptick of cases.

People have been saying that since VE Day, it’s been a long two weeks since early May.

As I say, breakouts are happening everywhere, can you name me somewhere where they aren’t?

Its not a question of success, it’s the nature of a virus that has no cure or vaccine.

Does a breakout in a German Meat plant mean Germany have failed or bungled their lockdown? 

[steviewevie]

Outbreak in Galicia in Spain means lockdown there, this after same in Catalonia.

There's also been an outbreak in Melbourne

[steviewevie]

Just now, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

People have been saying that since VE Day, it’s been a long two weeks since early May.

As I say, breakouts are happening everywhere, can you name me somewhere where they aren’t?

Its not a question of success, it’s the nature of a virus that has no cure or vaccine.

Does a breakout in a German Meat plant mean Germany have failed or bungled their lockdown? 

Outbreaks seem to be stemming from meat plants, factories, tower blocks...inside basically, not from any of the outside celebrations/protests/raves.

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Outbreaks seem to be stemming from meat plants, factories, tower blocks...inside basically, not from any of the outside celebrations/protests/raves.

Yeah. Pubs may cause a further spike, but the evidence so far seems to be dodgy factories as more of a worry 

[Ozanne]

'Stay Alert' was and is a messaging during lockdown, measures were only relaxed when that message was brought in. Or are we trying to re-write history so as to not upset our Tory masters?

It seems there's a few that will do anything to defend the government when all the evidence points otherwise give them all the leeway in the world yet happily jump on people that dare to bring these issues into the foreground.

If other areas of society had this much defence and support.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Yeah. Pubs may cause a further spike, but the evidence so far seems to be dodgy factories as more of a worry 

If only there was an organisation or body of people that had a decent amount of power, that could do something about this.... If only.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

'Stay Alert' was and is a messaging during lockdown, measures were only relaxed when that message was brought in. Or are we trying to re-write history so as to not upset our Tory masters?

It seems there's a few that will do anything to defend the government when all the evidence points otherwise give them all the leeway in the world yet happily jump on people that dare to bring these issues into the foreground.

If other areas of society had this much defence and support.

Surely you’re not saying it was a coincidence?

Stay alert became the message when we were no longer confined to our homes.

Stay at home, protect NHS, save lives was the message when we were told to stay at home and only leave for exercise and food.

When we no longer had to stay at home all the time it changed, whether you agree with the slogan ‘stay alert’ or not, surely while we were asked to stay at home the message was pretty clear? 

[Cream Soda]

Well my experience going out this weekend had been positive overall. Went for a meal last night, had a drink in a bar first. Not somewhere we would usually go as it can be a bit studenty and makes us feel old, but with a lack of options available we devided to have a swift one. We thought if we were going to see issues anywhere it might be there, but it was fine. There were spots on the floor to mark where to queue for the bar but they didn't line up with the gaps in the plastic screens so were not really bring used but otherwise no issues, groups were spread out and distancing observed although its a big bar so not too difficult to do. 

We thought the restaurant would be the most civilised of the 3 but it was actually the most hectic, no reduction in the usual amount of tables and full, with people queing out the door to get In. But once sat down it was adequately distanced and I didn't feel unsafe. Staff were wearing masks here but it was impossible to hear a word they said so they were pulling them down to talk which surely defeats the whole point and adds the extra risk of them constantly doing this then handling plates etc, so I think they would probably be better not wearing them.

Quiet country pub today, no issues there whatsoever.  Overall it's been nice to get out and feel something like normality again. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Cream Soda

[steviewevie]

I went into Manchester city centre today and most but not all shops were open, and some eating places were open. The shops seemed to be doing a pretty good job of the social distancing thing. Some but not all people were wearing masks. All seemed pretty relaxed really, the new normal.

[Ozanne]

Just now, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Surely you’re not saying it was a coincidence?

Stay alert became the message when we were no longer confined to our homes.

Stay at home, protect NHS, save lives was the message when we were told to stay at home and only leave for exercise and food.

When we no longer had to stay at home all the time it changed, whether you agree with the slogan ‘stay alert’ or not, surely while we were asked to stay at home the message was pretty clear? 

Stay alert meant stay at home as much as possible amongst other things. Lockdown isn't actually over, it's been relaxed greatly but we still have some businesses that have been locked down such as nail bars and gyms. Despite some non-essential businesses being allowed to reopen from July 4, this does not mean lockdown has ended.

 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

We thought the restaurant would be the most civilised of the 3 but it was actually the most hectic, no reduction in the usual about of tables and full, with people queing out the door to get In. But once sat down it was adequately distanced and I didn't feel unsafe. Staff were wearing masks here but it was impossible to hear a word they said so they were pulling them down to talk which surely defeats the whole point and adds the extra risk of them constantly doing this then handling plates etc, so I think they would probably be better not wearing them.

maybe they would be better off wearing those visor things that barbers and hairdressers are wearing...

[steviewevie]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Stay alert meant stay at home as much as possible amongst other things. Lockdown isn't actually over, it's been relaxed greatly but we still have some businesses that have been locked down such as nail bars and gyms. Despite some non-essential businesses being allowed to reopen from July 4, this does not mean lockdown has ended.

well...not sure now. The want us to go out and spend money, they need us to.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

maybe they would be better off wearing those visor things that barbers and hairdressers are wearing...

the sound gets blocked with those things too .... maybe a good example of how effective they actually are in blocking droplets too 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

well...not sure now. The want us to go out and spend money, they need us to.

Yes they do, but they also want to us to be cautious and not to spread the virus. The UK is still in some form of lockdown.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Yes they do, but they also want to us to be cautious and not to spread the virus. The UK is still in some form of lockdown.

yes, but the stay home thing is gone. Now it is just spend money but stay away from each other. Maybe they should have had that as their slogan.

[Sdsm123]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

Lack of PPE, wrong shipments of PPE ordered, care homes/release sick patients back into care homes, effective test & trace inc an app, lack of any real plan to get kids back in schools to name but a few. Yes you'll come back with 'hindsight' but remember the government had 2 reports indicating a pandemic is the biggest risk facing this country, they also had time from other countries that were suffering but Boris decided to go on holiday and when back gave off completely the wrong message by saying he was shaking hands with COVID patients. The UK Government have handled many things of this pandemic appallingly and they sadly have many deaths on their hands. To say you can't think of any other aspects of this they've handled badly is pure Tory spin.

I’m out of downvotes but that would have got a legit one! 

[Cream Soda]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

maybe they would be better off wearing those visor things that barbers and hairdressers are wearing...

Maybe, not sure how effective they are though. The staff in the other two places didnt have anything on. I understand it's different for hairdressers and people who need to come close to you but I'm personally ok with waiters/waitresses not wearing anything. 

[Ozanne]

Just now, steviewevie said:

yes, but the stay home thing is gone. Now it is just spend money but stay away from each other. Maybe they should have had that as their slogan.

I know it's gone. Many are still being advised to work from home, schools aren't fully open yet and quarantine is still in place for several countries. Those measures wouldn't be in place if lockdown was fully over.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Stay alert meant stay at home as much as possible amongst other things. Lockdown isn't actually over, it's been relaxed greatly but we still have some businesses that have been locked down such as nail bars and gyms. Despite some non-essential businesses being allowed to reopen from July 4, this does not mean lockdown has ended.

 

Maybe that’s where the confusion is, I tend to think of lockdown as being the bit when we were confined to our homes and told to stay at home. As soon as we could stay out of our homes longer than necessary I saw that as when the actual lockdown ended end hence the message changed.

If people don’t need to be in their homes at all times anymore the message shouldn’t have remained as stay at home. There is a balance to be struck between getting back to normal and actually wanting people not to stay locked in their homes so why continue to tell them to.

My point to the person was quoting as that they seemed to be missing the point of that. I said the nuances of our lockdown compared to others when you look at the purely stay at home period have clearly not made a huge difference. Beyond the point we no longer had to stay in our homes if people ignore social distancing I don’t think you can blame that on the message changing to stay alert.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Maybe that’s where the confusion is, I tend to think of lockdown as being the bit when we were confined to our homes and told to stay at home. As soon as we could stay out of our homes longer than necessary I saw that as when the actual lockdown ended end hence the message changed.

If people don’t need to be in their homes at all times anymore the message shouldn’t have remained as stay at home. There is a balance to be struck between getting back to normal and actually wanting people not to stay locked in their homes so why continue to tell them to.

My point to the person was quoting as that they seemed to be missing the point of that. I said the nuances of our lockdown compared to others when you look at the purely stay at home period have clearly not made a huge difference. Beyond the point we no longer had to stay in our homes if people ignore social distancing I don’t think you can blame that on the message changing to stay alert.

The 'stay at home' messaging wasn't the part that meant we were in lockdown. That was just messaging. It's the measurements that are in place that dictate whether we are in lockdown. Have a quick look, do some research you'll see that most places are saying measures have been relaxed greatly but the UK remains in some form of lockdown. Have you looked into any of this before?

[Zoo Music Girl]

I don't think even the government have said lockdown is over have they? All the talk is about easing, not ending. Certainly didn't think it was over back when shops were still closed.

@MrZigster I kind of agree with you on the camping thing, but just wonder where you usually camp? Since we've started going to the further reaches near Ped gate A (Bushy, Pylon, Darble) we've had so much more space. Plenty to sit outside your tent. Just a thought - tis a balance of how far you're willing to walk "home". For me well worth it.

[Cream Soda]

Does it really matter what it's called as long as we understand what we can and can't do and what the rules are? 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I don't think even the government have said lockdown is over have they? All the talk is about easing, not ending. Certainly didn't think it was over back when shops were still closed.

@MrZigster I kind of agree with you on the camping thing, but just wonder where you usually camp? Since we've started going to the further reaches near Ped gate A (Bushy, Pylon, Darble) we've had so much more space. Plenty to sit outside your tent. Just a thought - tis a balance of how far you're willing to walk "home". For me well worth it.

You are right, they haven't said lockdown is over at any stage.