When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Cheers scientists for the fucking obvious that two vaccinated people meeting up is of tiny risk.

Funny thing is there will be people whose logic has defied them to the extent that they need a scientist to spell this out 🤦‍♂️

yeah, fucking nerds.

[zahidf]

Yup

 

[zahidf]

Fake SAGE will be devastated

 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Fake SAGE will be devastated

 

yeah, fuck fake sage the fake fucking sage fuckers.

[Mellotr0n]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, fuck fake sage the fake fucking sage fuckers.

Bit harsh. They are however childish, pompous bellends, sure.

The fantastic Covid centrist @bristoliver’s contempt of them is quite enjoyable. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Mellotr0n

[zahidf]

 

[zahidf]

 

[zahidf]

Yup

 

[stuie]

6 hours ago, ShakeyCrash said:

Going to call tomorrow. I heard today that someone in their 40s called at 8 am and was jabbed 9 am. It really is coming to an end. 60% of adult population first jabbed already, 20% have received both jabs. Some restrictions have been brought forwards. Number of cases dropping so we are under 18 cases per 100,000 people. Cases are still dropping.

I went to my local centre the other day. Well, twice. First time was closed. Second time they were doing Pfizer about 5pm but had none left but after I explained I was looking for end of day scraps they put me on the list for leftovers on Tuesday this week for AstraZeneca... no guarantee but if there’s any left I’ll have it! Got to be there at 4pm and I’m 40 😁

2 hours ago, JoeyT said:

 

Single figure deaths! Amazing. 

[JoeyT]

 

[Mr.Tease]

52 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Must say I thought China would produce a more effective vaccine than they have so far- would have been a huge boost to the global effort to tackle this. Still, fingers crossed the two they do have are good enough

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

 

I believe they are also considering starting over and making an mRNA vaccine as the efficacy looks so good. They haven’t really pushed all that hard on their domestic vaccination programme and don’t seem to want to purchase existing vaccines from elsewhere (I guess when you need a couple of billion doses it makes it a bit harder!)...I wouldn’t be making too many judgements about the apparent efficacy of my vaccine compared to others though from data derived from a rampant wave in Brazil, might be a bit premature to be writing them off! They do have one vaccine that is essentially the same as the Russian one and that has performed well in trials...none of these vaccines have been compared head to head in trials, so very difficult to judge between them. Real world use of OX/AZ vs Pfizer suggests little or no difference between them in terms of effectiveness.

[Mr.Tease]

4 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

I believe they are also considering starting over and making an mRNA vaccine as the efficacy looks so good. They haven’t really pushed all that hard on their domestic vaccination programme and don’t seem to want to purchase existing vaccines from elsewhere (I guess when you need a couple of billion doses it makes it a bit harder!)...I wouldn’t be making too many judgements about the apparent efficacy of my vaccine compared to others though from data derived from a rampant wave in Brazil, might be a bit premature to be writing them off! They do have one vaccine that is essentially the same as the Russian one and that has performed well in trials...none of these vaccines have been compared head to head in trials, so very difficult to judge between them. Real world use of OX/AZ vs Pfizer suggests little or no difference between them in terms of effectiveness.

Why have China been a bit sluggish when it comes to vaccinations, or at least don’t seem to be going all out with a vaccination strategy? Is it because they were so effective in getting it under control domestically and are content maintaining that? Curious if there are any good articles on their mid-long term strategy.

[eFestivals]

51 minutes ago, stuie said:

I went to my local centre the other day. Well, twice. First time was closed. Second time they were doing Pfizer about 5pm but had none left but after I explained I was looking for end of day scraps they put me on the list for leftovers on Tuesday this week for AstraZeneca... no guarantee but if there’s any left I’ll have it! Got to be there at 4pm and I’m 40 😁

Single figure deaths! Amazing. 

If you're wanting Pfizer cos of clot concerns with AZ there's clot concerns with Pfizer too. 

[Toilet Duck]

1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

Why have China been a bit sluggish when it comes to vaccinations, or at least don’t seem to be going all out with a vaccination strategy? Is it because they were so effective in getting it under control domestically and are content maintaining that? Curious if there are any good articles on their mid-long term strategy.

They have more or less followed the zero-Covid strategy that others in the region have pursued. Their domestic economy is going along nicely, so they can manage fine while the rest of us can’t do anything, but that changes when the world gets moving again. I need to go to Shanghai at some point, but at the moment it’ll take me 28 days to be able to actually go to the meeting! (14 days in a government quarantine facility and then 14 more self-isolation in my hotel)...so not feasible to go at the moment (I have a multiple entry visa that’s still valid, otherwise I wouldn’t even be able to get a visa at the moment). The majority of the vaccines they have manufactured have been for export (as a diplomatic strategy), I expect that they will rapidly vaccinate everyone when the world opens up so they don’t get left behind, but are in no great hurry until then. Which vaccine they use is the question (the plan was domestic ones, and I reckon the two shot adenovirus one they have is probably just fine, all vaccines would look poor if controlling the current situation in Brazil was the measure of their effectiveness!)...

[Mr.Tease]

14 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

They have more or less followed the zero-Covid strategy that others in the region have pursued. Their domestic economy is going along nicely, so they can manage fine while the rest of us can’t do anything, but that changes when the world gets moving again. I need to go to Shanghai at some point, but at the moment it’ll take me 28 days to be able to actually go to the meeting! (14 days in a government quarantine facility and then 14 more self-isolation in my hotel)...so not feasible to go at the moment (I have a multiple entry visa that’s still valid, otherwise I wouldn’t even be able to get a visa at the moment). The majority of the vaccines they have manufactured have been for export (as a diplomatic strategy), I expect that they will rapidly vaccinate everyone when the world opens up so they don’t get left behind, but are in no great hurry until then. Which vaccine they use is the question (the plan was domestic ones, and I reckon the two shot adenovirus one they have is probably just fine, all vaccines would look poor if controlling the current situation in Brazil was the measure of their effectiveness!)...

Thanks! I went to Beijing back in October 2019- glad I did now, as I’ve no idea when that will be an option again! I did think they’d be in more of a hurry to vaccinate, but maybe they’re confident when they do need to they can ramp up the vaccinations quickly.

[stuartbert two hats]

40 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

They have more or less followed the zero-Covid strategy that others in the region have pursued. Their domestic economy is going along nicely, so they can manage fine while the rest of us can’t do anything, but that changes when the world gets moving again. I need to go to Shanghai at some point, but at the moment it’ll take me 28 days to be able to actually go to the meeting! (14 days in a government quarantine facility and then 14 more self-isolation in my hotel)...so not feasible to go at the moment (I have a multiple entry visa that’s still valid, otherwise I wouldn’t even be able to get a visa at the moment). The majority of the vaccines they have manufactured have been for export (as a diplomatic strategy), I expect that they will rapidly vaccinate everyone when the world opens up so they don’t get left behind, but are in no great hurry until then. Which vaccine they use is the question (the plan was domestic ones, and I reckon the two shot adenovirus one they have is probably just fine, all vaccines would look poor if controlling the current situation in Brazil was the measure of their effectiveness!)...

It's the Chile situation that's casting doubt on the non-adenovirus (Sinovac?) Chinese vaccine.

[steviewevie]

India variants...

 

[Toilet Duck]

12 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

It's the Chile situation that's casting doubt on the non-adenovirus (Sinovac?) Chinese vaccine.

That’s their inactivated one? (So many Chinese vaccines with similar sounding names!)...Single dose of that might not be as useful alright (don’t think Chile is that far along in full vaccination is it?). The genetic vaccines have the benefit of broader immune activation, variants would have a greater impact on the more traditional vaccines I expect. They still have their adenoviral ones that should fare a good bit better as they are basically either the J&J or Sputnik jabs (I think CanSino have theirs on trial in Chile at the moment, so that might actually serve as a useful comparison)...

[Toilet Duck]

24 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

India variants...

 

Yet again though, we see the same residues changing...(484, though a glutamine instead of a lysine this time, and the 452 change is in the Californian variants, so we already know what it does). It’s still reassuring that wherever the virus spirals out of control, it settles on changing these key residues (or at least, they are the ones that get selected, the virus has little to actively do with it!). I don’t think we actually have to make too many variant specific vaccines to generate a pan-SARS-CoV-2 vaccine (and of course, other parts of our immune systems still work pretty well against these variants anyway)...

[stuartbert two hats]

15 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

That’s their inactivated one? (So many Chinese vaccines with similar sounding names!)...Single dose of that might not be as useful alright (don’t think Chile is that far along in full vaccination is it?). The genetic vaccines have the benefit of broader immune activation, variants would have a greater impact on the more traditional vaccines I expect. They still have their adenoviral ones that should fare a good bit better as they are basically either the J&J or Sputnik jabs (I think CanSino have theirs on trial in Chile at the moment, so that might actually serve as a useful comparison)...

I think it's inactivated, yeah.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Yet again though, we see the same residues changing...(484, though a glutamine instead of a lysine this time, and the 452 change is in the Californian variants, so we already know what it does). It’s still reassuring that wherever the virus spirals out of control, it settles on changing these key residues (or at least, they are the ones that get selected, the virus has little to actively do with it!). I don’t think we actually have to make too many variant specific vaccines to generate a pan-SARS-CoV-2 vaccine (and of course, other parts of our immune systems still work pretty well against these variants anyway)...

so...when you say pan-SARS-Cov2 vaccine...do you mean could have multiple vaccines for different variants in one jab? Or is that a really stupid question?

[Toilet Duck]

Just now, steviewevie said:

so...when you say pan-SARS-Cov2 vaccine...do you mean could have multiple vaccines for different variants in one jab? Or is that a really stupid question?

No, not a stupid question at all! Theoretically it should be possible. It’s what we do with flu. The mRNA and adenoviral ones are probably being over dosed at the moment. A mix of sequences that contain the principal variants could stimulate neutralising antibodies to all of them in one go without having to increase the total vaccine dosage (I’m speculating here, but I don’t see why it would not be possible). Whether the regulators would agree to fast track a multi-valent vaccine is a different question (they’re ok with the idea of fast-tracking a single new sequence vaccine so long as the pre-clinical data matches, which is what various manufacturers are doing at the moment)...

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, Toilet Duck said:

No, not a stupid question at all! Theoretically it should be possible. It’s what we do with flu. The mRNA and adenoviral ones are probably being over dosed at the moment. A mix of sequences that contain the principal variants could stimulate neutralising antibodies to all of them in one go without having to increase the total vaccine dosage (I’m speculating here, but I don’t see why it would not be possible). Whether the regulators would agree to fast track a multi-valent vaccine is a different question (they’re ok with the idea of fast-tracking a single new sequence vaccine so long as the pre-clinical data matches, which is what various manufacturers are doing at the moment)...

The crew on The Week In Virology seemed pretty convinced that there would have to be a full Phase 3 trial at the least for a multi-valent vaccine, in part because of uncertainty around dosing levels. Do you dose the same amount as normal for each variant(variation? version?) or divide it equally between each one?

[stuartbert two hats]

Addendum: If you use the full dose for each one, then you'll end up with a lot of vaccine. If you divide it up, then will there be a sufficient immune response in the areas of variation? We don't know without trialling it was the argument.