When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Anyone have any idea if things have changed in Lancashire or Liverpool yet?

I don’t mean this to sound as flippant as it might do as I gotta get back to work but gov.uk would have the latest case data and could give a good idea? Sorry!

[Ozanne]

Also when was ‘Tier 1 plus’ a thing!?

[Havors]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I don’t mean this to sound as flippant as it might do as I gotta get back to work but gov.uk would have the latest case data and could give a good idea? Sorry!

Have to be taken with a pinch of salt those figures. The only way to get a clear picture is compare those stats with ONS and PHE. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

4 minutes ago, Havors said:

Not sure if that is the case now but it was back in March/April etc... the knock on effect will be awful. A friend of ours lost his wife last week to cancer... she was diagnosed last autumn and wasnt able to get any treatment for most of this year. When she finally went in for treatment it was too late. They gave her a few months to live she lasted a week.

I hope things are different this winter as they now know a lot more.... 

 

Awful news, and just the tip of the iceberg. All because the NHS has decided that prolonging the lives of 80 year olds takes priority over middle aged cancer patients who could live for another 30 years if managed properly. The day of reckoning will come for the people who made this preposterous error. But for now I’d encourage anyone who can afford it to join BUPA. 

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Apparently Bristol is moving in to Tier 1+. As far as I can see that means there will be Covid marshals but not a lot else?!

This government love making it up as they go along 

Just came to post the same. Laughable.

[Crazyfool01]

18 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Apparently Bristol is moving in to Tier 1+. As far as I can see that means there will be Covid marshals but not a lot else?!

This government love making it up as they go along 

Local news says also more testing being moved regional rather than central 

[gizmoman]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Also when was ‘Tier 1 plus’ a thing!?

No more tiers - enough is enough.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Awful news, and just the tip of the iceberg. All because the NHS has decided that prolonging the lives of 80 year olds takes priority over middle aged cancer patients who could live for another 30 years if managed properly. The day of reckoning will come for the people who made this preposterous error. But for now I’d encourage anyone who can afford it to join BUPA. 

Maybe they should just leave over 80s with covid at home to get on with it.

[Havors]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Awful news, and just the tip of the iceberg. All because the NHS has decided that prolonging the lives of 80 year olds takes priority over middle aged cancer patients who could live for another 30 years if managed properly. The day of reckoning will come for the people who made this preposterous error. But for now I’d encourage anyone who can afford it to join BUPA. 

I think at the start of all this it was an understandable (albeit probably wrong) decision as we didnt know how bad it was and all those cancer patients etc could have been put at serious risk... However we now know better. It best not happen again. 

[st dan]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Awful news, and just the tip of the iceberg. All because the NHS has decided that prolonging the lives of 80 year olds takes priority over middle aged cancer patients who could live for another 30 years if managed properly. The day of reckoning will come for the people who made this preposterous error. But for now I’d encourage anyone who can afford it to join BUPA. 

I get the point you’re making here, and whilst there is no getting around the fact that cancer patients shouldn’t have been denied treatment - it wasn’t just a case of saving a few 80 year olds, we’re talking millions of extremely vulnerable people of all ages that the restrictions are in place to protect. 
What they should have done is carried on cancer treatments regardless, in designated zones of hospitals or designated facilities etc. I think that does need some serious investigation when this is all over. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe they should just leave over 80s with covid at home to get on with it.

Exactly, much better than leaving cancer patients at home 

[JoeyT]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Local news says also more testing being moved regional rather than central 

Sorry for sounding dense but what does that mean?

[Havors]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Maybe they should just leave over 80s with covid at home to get on with it.

Harsh haha  

The obvious come back to that sarcasm though is... "well thats what they did to the cancer patients".... 

[Mr.Tease]

16 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It’s horrendously wrong that cancer patients in their 20s-50s are being ignored to give treatment to covid patients in their 80s. Horrendously wrong. 

If people don't want to lockdown sooner and oppose greater restrictions at every turn, then this is where we end up, hospitals overloaded and horrible decisions having to be made regarding who gets treatment and who doesn't. 

Age of covid patients isn't relevant in stopping cancer treatments (not that being over 80 is some sort of crime that means they don't 'deserve' treatment), because the issue is people of any age being in hospital with covid means a) there's a higher risk of cancer patients getting it, and b) there's less staff available.

If you stop admitting people to hospital with covid then mortality rates are going to soar. 

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, Havors said:

Harsh haha  

The obvious come back to that sarcasm though is... "well thats what they did to the cancer patients".... 

and that is a completely separate debate as to the one over lockdown restrictions btw. But I think that cancer patients should absolutely be prioritised. 

[steviewevie]

Nightingale hospital in Manchester is going to take patients who do not have covid.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Havors said:

Harsh haha  

The obvious come back to that sarcasm though is... "well thats what they did to the cancer patients".... 

I mean...it's ridiculous we spend so much on a health service trying to keep people alive who are going to die anyway.

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Sorry for sounding dense but what does that mean?

I’m presuming more done by local public health and targeted rather than by serco ? .... 

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

and that is a completely separate debate as to the one over lockdown restrictions btw. But I think that cancer patients should absolutely be prioritised. 

It's not separate though is it. We were under lockdown and treatment for cancer and other stuff was getting back to normal levels and improving. Then we stopped it and the COVID numbers went back up and now it's going away again.

"Who should we treat?" is only a question we're having to debate because we opened everything back up again.

[steviewevie]

Looks like France are going to have a 4 week national lockdown.

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

If people don't want to lockdown sooner and oppose greater restrictions at every turn, then this is where we end up, hospitals overloaded and horrible decisions having to be made regarding who gets treatment and who doesn't. 

Age of covid patients isn't relevant in stopping cancer treatments (not that being over 80 is some sort of crime that means they don't 'deserve' treatment), because the issue is people of any age being in hospital with covid means a) there's a higher risk of cancer patients getting it, and b) there's less staff available.

If you stop admitting people to hospital with covid then mortality rates are going to soar. 

 

Do you think that all patients who are admitted to hospital with covid and ultimately survive would die if they had not been admitted? 

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, Havors said:

Harsh haha  

The obvious come back to that sarcasm though is... "well thats what they did to the cancer patients".... 

Ideally we’d have a properly funded NHS that could treat everyone and was well prepared for a pandemic. However we have had the Tories in charge for a decade so we don’t sadly. When this is all done hopefully that’s a big take away is that we need to keep the NHS properly funded.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

It's not separate though is it. We were under lockdown and treatment for cancer and other stuff was getting back to normal levels and improving. Then we stopped it and the COVID numbers went back up and now it's going away again.

"Who should we treat?" is only a question we're having to debate because we opened everything back up again.

My point is that some anti lockdown people blame lockdown as the reason why cancer treatment was stopped. This is not the case. You could lock down and still have cancer treatment ongoing. 

[Mr.Tease]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

and that is a completely separate debate as to the one over lockdown restrictions btw. But I think that cancer patients should absolutely be prioritised. 

Best hope for cancer patients was to suppress the virus with stricter lockdowns until we got a vaccine, but we haven't done that so now cancer treatments will have to be cancelled, as was said weeks/months ago on this thread. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Best hope for cancer patients was to suppress the virus with stricter lockdowns until we got a vaccine, but we haven't done that so now cancer treatments will have to be cancelled, as was said weeks/months ago on this thread. 

Which is completely morally wrong, IMO.