When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

13 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

 

This is confusing. One source seems to suggest that the current vaccine works against the mutation and the other suggests they need to make a new one (but can do so quickly)

 

Wonder if @Toilet Duck could clarify? 

Both

 

“We don’t know at the moment if our vaccine is also able to provide protection against this new variant,” Şahin said a day after the vaccine was approved for use in the European Union. “But scientifically, it is highly likely that the immune response by this vaccine also can deal with the new virus variants.”

Şahin said that the proteins on the UK variant are 99% the same as on the prevailing strains, and therefore BioNTech has “scientific confidence” that its vaccine will be effective. “We believe there is no reason to be concerned or worried.”

Should the vaccine need to be adjusted for the new variant, the company could do so in about six weeks, said Şahin, though regulators might have to approve the changes before the shots can be used.

Edited December 22, 2020 by zahidf

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

THey test blood i believe and can tell if there was elevated anitbody levels

Ah yes - if I thought about it I'd have realised that. 

[Toilet Duck]

16 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

 

This is confusing. One source seems to suggest that the current vaccine works against the mutation and the other suggests they need to make a new one (but can do so quickly)

 

Wonder if @Toilet Duck could clarify? 

Current vaccines should work just fine, but if we get a big shift that needs a new vaccine, these new genetic ones can be swiftly altered to contain the new sequence (and BioNTech are suggesting 6 weeks to do that), so we can adapt as the virus does if we need to. But, the immune response to the spike protein generated by the vaccines leads to antibodies that attack it from all directions, so it's unlikely that it can accumulate enough changes to entirely wipe out our immune response to it and still function as an ACE2 binding protein (or interact with the various accessory receptors/molecules that allow viral entry into our cells to replicate)...there's no great selective pressure on the virus to do this, even with the vaccines, transmission won't be 100% prevented and we are seeing the virus jump into all sorts of animal hosts (mink, mice, ferrets, bats etc), so there's loads of places for it to go if humans become inhospitable due to vaccination...all the virus wants to do is replicate and survive, doesn't care where that is. There seems to be some surprise that it is evolving more quickly than expected, but this is a function of the spread, rather than a virus that is intrinsically unstable. The more it replicates, the more errors are made when it does so, therefore, the more of it there is about, the more variants we'll see. Suppressing it should actually also keep it more stable (and promote a weaker form as it needs to keep its hosts alive if finding a new one is harder). Anyway, no indication that we have anything to worry about in terms of vaccine use at the moment.

Edit: What @zahidf said!

Edited December 22, 2020 by Toilet Duck

[steviewevie]

oh...and brexit...

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

oh...and brexit...

 

That sounds fishy to me. 

[BobWillis]

31 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Crazy - the fact they pushed on with Christmas doesn't point towards them caring at all...

5,000 deaths per week is down considerably on the 4,000 deaths per day model. 

[incident]

7 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

I have a query for all you folk signing up for trials. You get the jab? Your then subject to the same rules as the rest of us, is it the vaccine working? Or is it restrictions working? 

50% of participants are given the vaccine, and 50% are given a placebo.

The trial will attempt to balance people - so similar age ranges, risk levels, jobs, etc. People aren't told which group they're in, and are expected to act as they otherwise would have (including any societal restrictions). Then the way they tell it's working is comparing the number of people in the placebo group to get infected vs the number who actually had the vaccine.

Government rules/restrictions shouldn't skew the results as they should have broadly the same impact on both sides.

[Homer]

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/why-all-this-is-fine-by-a-brexiter-20201222203736?fbclid=IwAR1TU2rtJnO6Okaif8n_RvoKF2bPtyT7Gtl6OowFew2kZmThItbb9nVCURM

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, incident said:

50% of participants are given the vaccine, and 50% are given a placebo.

The trial will attempt to balance people - so similar age ranges, risk levels, jobs, etc. People aren't told which group they're in, and are expected to act as they otherwise would have (including any societal restrictions). Then the way they tell it's working is comparing the number of people in the placebo group to get infected vs the number who actually had the vaccine.

Government rules/restrictions shouldn't skew the results as they should have broadly the same impact on both sides.

when do you find out if you had vaccine or placebo?

[incident]

Just now, steviewevie said:

when do you find out if you had vaccine or placebo?

Typically when the trial ends.

Though in the case of this particular Janssen study they've apparently said that they'll unblind people as and when they're offered an approved vaccine as they don't want to stand in the way of people getting protected.

[Homer]

5 minutes ago, BobWillis said:

5,000 deaths per week is down considerably on the 4,000 deaths per day model. 

I'm old enough to remember when we were told that 20,000 would be a failure.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Homer said:

I'm old enough to remember when we were told that 20,000 would be a failure.

And that’s 20k in total!

[Fuzzy Afro]

I don’t see any way it stays below 100,000 if Dartford Supercovid is as bad as feared. 

[steviewevie]

40 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Crazy - the fact they pushed on with Christmas doesn't point towards them caring at all...

is this based on current restrictions, or with no restrictions?

[steviewevie]

this shows that economy can bounce back pretty quickly...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/22/uk-covid-lockdown-ons-gdp-borrowing

[efcfanwirral]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

is this based on current restrictions, or with no restrictions?

Can't actually work that out but its based on the old strain...

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

Can't actually work that out but its based on the old strain...

oh...right...so could be a lot more....

[Copperface]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

A despicable collection of chancers and spivs.

https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers

I think Johnson just wants to be adoored.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

I think Johnson just wants to be adoored.

He definitely wants to be loved, there is a portion of the public that do like him but I think that is slowly starting to change. 

[Homer]

How are they going to vote on a Brexit deal if parliament has been closed for Xmas?

[Copperface]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

He definitely wants to be loved, there is a portion of the public that do like him but I think that is slowly starting to change. 

I think you missed the point of that post. That was no typo.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Homer said:

How are they going to vote on a Brexit deal if parliament has been closed for Xmas?

parliament will open after xmas and they'll have proxy voting?

[Paul ™]

33 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That sounds fishy to me. 

Apparently millions of pounds of seafood stuck in Kent slowly going off and the French don't seem to want it. 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]