2021 Headliners

[Hugh Jass]

Drake falls into the “couldn’t knock it as a booking but I’d be elsewhere” category for me. Haven’t heard much of his stuff, but what I have hasn’t really made me want to seek out more.

[Cream Soda]

8 hours ago, Matt42 said:

Also on this point as I’ve seen @Mattymooz is getting downvoted for this. While I don’t think this post was intended to be racist it can definitely come across that way. You’ve mentioned two of the largest artists in the hip hop scene right now and belittled their credentials to headline a major festival, which both have done way before being booked / being discussed to headline Glastonbury. With what is going on at the moment I think it’s important to highlight how white supremacy embeds itself within modern discourse, as I see a lot of commentary which unconsciously expresses this. It reads like you’re saying black art can achieve great things but can never be considered equal to white art on the world stage. Or that black art has to “do more” to be considered worthy.

Just food for thought.

I'm fascinated by this conversation, I didn't see anything untoward at all in what was posted but I want to educate myself around this situation as much as possible.   Your own comment (below) was also picked up for similar reasons @Matt42, just wondering what your thoughts are on that and do you see that the same way?  Not trying to be devisive here at all, just trying to explore and understand this topic a bit more for myself as I wouldn't have seen an issue with either comment were it not pointed out. (I'm still not really sure if I do or not).

8 hours ago, Ddiamondd said:

I would agree with sentiments about people watching their tone in general.

If Pete Townsend and David Bowie get a pass for suspect rock ‘n roll behaviour, James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich are praised for being cocksure, Richard Ashcroft can get away with being a noted dick to his own band etc, the assumption that Drake or Kendrick or Travis or any other rapper are too arrogant and vain to do the job properly is... pretty unsavoury.

They might only perform two verses apiece from some songs, but their sets are usually 20-30 hits deep and packed with guests. How is that any less a form of entertainment?

Same too the idea that they don’t know what Glastonbury is and should stick to ‘their’ lane of commercial events. Did Springsteen not require a dossier to explain the premise of what the fest meant?

[CaledonianGonzo]

Hang on a mo.  Just on the phone to my nan to see if she's heard of Drake.

[FloorFiller]

1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Hang on a mo.  Just on the phone to my nan to see if she's heard of Drake.

Might need to make it a FaceTime so you can do the toosie slide dance - she'll know what that is.

Edited July 3, 2020 by FloorFiller

[jparx]

7 minutes ago, FloorFiller said:

Yeah, all of this. Jay Z is a master of his art who's released a ton of critically acclaimed albums as well as continued chart success across his career. It was a big and ballsy booking for an act who deserved it. Same with Kanye. Drake ain't that - he'd be the most expensive 'cheap' booking they could make, with a setlist full of dreadful hollow songs like Tootsie Slide made for streaming numbers and nothing more. And I'm not saying all this 'cause I'm not a fan - I used to be a huge fan, until he rapidly slipped in to mediocrity.

I might be well off here, but I'd see it as a similar booking to Pharrell, just much more expensive and obviously a bigger act in a headline spot. Someone who has put out ace music in the past but, as you say, pursued streaming success over quality in recent years. Big crowd and it would go down well, but not worth all the effort and money it would take. 

Again if he does it for a couple hundred grand, then sure. I wouldn't be breaking the bank though.

[Suprefan]

1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Hang on a mo.  Just on the phone to my nan to see if she's heard of Drake.

Aubrey rolling up now.

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 minute ago, FloorFiller said:

Might need to make it a FaceTime so you can do the toosie slide dance - she'll know what that is.

Check out this OAP using FaceTime

[Hugh Jass]

4 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Hang on a mo.  Just on the phone to my nan to see if she's heard of Drake.

My Nan’s phone is the Hotline Bling.

[CaledonianGonzo]

The fact that Drake's name is Aubrey is the best thing about him.

[jyoung]

If Drake rocks up and plays Take Care in full I'm there losing my shit.

Ps. Suggesting he would sub or play third from the top is wildly ignorant to the point of choice but we can point that out without making certain accusations.

[Suprefan]

8 hours ago, Ddiamondd said:

I would agree with sentiments about people watching their tone in general.

If Pete Townsend and David Bowie get a pass for suspect rock ‘n roll behaviour, James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich are praised for being cocksure, Richard Ashcroft can get away with being a noted dick to his own band etc, the assumption that Drake or Kendrick or Travis or any other rapper are too arrogant and vain to do the job properly is... pretty unsavoury.

They might only perform two verses apiece from some songs, but their sets are usually 20-30 hits deep and packed with guests. How is that any less a form of entertainment?

Same too the idea that they don’t know what Glastonbury is and should stick to ‘their’ lane of commercial events. Did Springsteen not require a dossier to explain the premise of what the fest meant?

 I would  you have had not that much exposure to a lot of live hip hop to know that not everyone does the 2 verse thing. Is that what Kanye did in 2015? Kendrick performs songs in full cause its 99% of the time his voice and only his voice on a song. Theres no reliance on needing guests, but it seems everyone is conditioned for only rappers to have somebody pop up or it wasnt a good enough performance without it.

[Suprefan]

8 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

The fact that Drake's name is Aubrey is the best thing about him.

Well Drake is his middle name, just like Rihanna’s first name is Robyn.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Suprefan

[zero000]

Drake is 100% big enough to headline. However not really sure if he’s a priority for Glastonbury, or vice versa. 

[FloorFiller]

3 minutes ago, jyoung said:

If Drake rocks up and plays Take Care in full I'm there losing my shit.

I'd take a set by him of just material pre-Views - everything after that can get to fuck. Unfortunately I think it' d be largely the other way round these days.

[Mattymooz]

19 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Not liking Drake doesn’t make someone a racist. Not cool to suggest that.

No, but suggesting 2 black artists are not good headliners is.

I'm fine with debating whether you think he is too money hungry for that slot, or if glasto would try and book him, but to straight up say "massive black artist isnt worth as much as white artist and should be booked lower" which imo is how that post read aint a great look.

And this is especially important considering the Taylor Swift booking this year that people were really excited for. She's someone who is probably equally popular, played just as much on radio and also appears to be pretty money hungry (as her past expensive stadium gigs have proven) yet no one was making comments like "oh she should sub/play the miley slot"...

[jyoung]

Just now, FloorFiller said:

I'd take a set by him of just material pre-Views - everything after that can get to fuck. Unfortunately I think it' d be largely the other way round these days.

Of course it would. Can't blame him tbf. If You're Reading This It's Too Late is up there with the best stuff he's put out imo and you're only ever gonna get one or two from that as well.

[Matt42]

25 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Not all just a bit mopey and self-pitying?

Yeah the smiths fucking suck

[jparx]

Feel like we have the same discussions about Drake and Rihanna every 6 months or so and we're no closer to either of them happening.

On to a realistic list for next year, I think we're looking at three of:

Kendrick

McCartney

Swift

Arctic Monkeys

The 1975

Lady Gaga

Billie Eilish (she's likely headlining festivals next year, she's an option. Deal with it!)

Mumford & Sons (backup headliner?)

The Strokes (all the usual caveats, but they're about if other acts fall through)

RHCP (similar the above)

And two of the usual but probably not happening names:

Madonna 

Elton 

Edited July 3, 2020 by jparx

[Cream Soda]

4 minutes ago, Mattymooz said:

No, but suggesting 2 black artists are not good headliners is.

I'm fine with debating whether you think he is too money hungry for that slot, or if glasto would try and book him, but to straight up say "massive black artist isnt worth as much as white artist and should be booked lower" which imo is how that post read aint a great look.

And this is especially important considering the Taylor Swift booking this year that people were really excited for. She's someone who is probably equally popular, played just as much on radio and also appears to be pretty money hungry (as her past expensive stadium gigs have proven) yet no one was making comments like "oh she should sub/play the miley slot"...

I wouldn't say people were universally excited about her, I actually think she was quite a divisive booking.

[Matt42]

4 minutes ago, Mattymooz said:

yet no one was making comments like "oh she should sub/play the miley slot"...

Some were but we will just let that slide  I think with that though it’s more of an ignorance to what is popular and which artists are actually bigger than other artists. I think some people who don’t engage with pop at all consider all pop artists to be of an equal size just because they have chart toppers. Some need to be sat down and explained to that Taylor plays stadiums and Miley... well.. has Miley even done arenas? 

[Mattymooz]

6 minutes ago, jyoung said:

If Drake rocks up and plays Take Care in full I'm there losing my shit.

Ps. Suggesting he would sub or play third from the top is wildly ignorant to the point of choice but we can point that out without making certain accusations.

Personally, given recent events, I'm more inclined to call it out when I see it. I'm not trying to say @K2SO is a big old racist by any means, but that comment did come across as though it was loaded with more of a racial bias to me. Trying to normalise this kinda stuff is important imo, I still think rap gets far too much shit than it deserves compared to other genres, especially when speaking about Glasto headliners (most likely because most people still view it as "black people music")

[Mattymooz]

Just now, Cream Soda said:

I wouldn't say people were universally excited about her, I actually think she was quite a divisive booking.

I would say she was pretty easily the best received booking out of the 3 this year on here and on my timeline (and any Glasto booking is going to get a large amount of discussion revolving around them anyway).

[Matt42]

@Cream Soda I don’t quite know what you’re asking but I definitely see it in terms of headliner discussions. I do think most of it is that the Glasto Chat crowd just dislike rap, but that’s another thing. 
 

I do find that hip hop bookings have to explain themselves on lineups a bit more than any other bookings though. Like I have to actually pitch to people why they should even mentally allow Kendrick or Stormzy to be on the pyramid stage. However mid ranged U.K. bands who haven’t had a hit single in years can headline no questions asked because they channel that white working class british spirit.

[FloorFiller]

Just now, jparx said:

Feel like we have the same discussions about Drake and Rihanna every 6 months or so and were no closer to either of them happening.

On to a realistic list for next year, I think we're looking at three of:

Kendrick

McCartney

Swift

Arctic Monkeys

The 1975

Lady Gaga

Billie Eilish (she's likely headlining festivals next year, she's an option. Deal with it!)

Mumford & Sons (backup headliner?)

The Strokes (all the usual caveats, but they're about if other acts fall through)

RHCP (similar the above)

And two of the usual but probably not happening names:

Madonna 

Elton 

I won't deal with it - Billie ain't headlining next year. There's a 0% chance of that happening.

I doubt the festival would've announced Mumfords as a secret set for this year if there was any chance of them being a backup headliner next. That booking was as good of an indicator as any that they're no longer seen as a viable headliner, friends of the festival or not.

I feel like The Strokes can just be written off entirely these days. It hasn't happened their entire career and they're just not so big of a deal these day that Glastonbury would bother imo.  

RHCP probably just gonna stick to alternating between their own shows and R/L, and maybe even Download some day but even that seems like a stretch.

Still think Madonna is in ongoing talks for a future festival. I doubt it was next year, but who knows... I know it can be looked at in a lot of ways, but Emily following her and going to her show/bigging it up on social media reads to me as a testing the water kind of thing. I'd be shocked if talks weren't happening there, even if they have proven to be fruitless.

Elton's probably one we can write off now. Doing his final tour, wasn't on this years lineup. Outside of him popping up for one last hurrah on the Pyramid, it seems like it's not happening. 

[Matt42]

3 minutes ago, Mattymooz said:

I would say she was pretty easily the best received booking out of the 3 this year on here and on my timeline (and any Glasto booking is going to get a large amount of discussion revolving around them anyway).

In my circles the crux of the Taylor swift criticism was from people who’ve never explored her beyond we are never getting back together and look what you made me do.

If someone brings up those two songs and her past relationships as a reason why she’s “shit” you know that person doesn’t really know much about her at all. It’s a pointless discussion.

Imagine if I was here to say that Radiohead are a run of the mill English rock band and the only basis I have for that criticism is Creep.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Matt42