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Ryan Adams

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22 minutes ago, henry bear said:

Wisenbaker says he told RA ‘some time ago’ to get help, which indicates that he knew RA was fucked up. If he knew, or suspected, what was going on, his actions should have amounted to more than that. 

Adams behaviour with women is quite common. I don't find it shocking at all. Its the stuff with the teenager thats the issue. 

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10 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Adams behaviour with women is quite common. I don't find it shocking at all.

This is an issue.

10 minutes ago, The Nal said:

 Its the stuff with the teenager thats the issue. 

This is another issue

 

If things like using the threat of suicide to isolate and control partners, and making professional offers to women but then later making those offers dependent on sex are quite common in our society

We should improve society somewhat

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18 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

This is an issue.

he didn't say different.

He said that behaviour like that is "quite common" and that he doesn't find it shocking.

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Just now, eFestivals said:

he didn't say different.

He said that behaviour like that is "quite common" and that he doesn't find it shocking.

Yes, the fact that it's quite common and that people don't find it shocking is an issue, as I said.

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5 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

Yes, the fact that it's quite common and that people don't find it shocking is an issue, as I said.

I guess you're the sort of guy who's in shock each time you hear of a crime.

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1 hour ago, The Nal said:

Adams behaviour with women is quite common. I don't find it shocking at all. Its the stuff with the teenager thats the issue. 

True, in fact he seems like an all-round douche bag, and not just against women. But as you say, the other allegation is a different territory altogether 

Edited by henry bear

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22 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I guess you're the sort of guy who's in shock each time you hear of a crime.

Missing his point I think - the fact that it's not shocking is an issue.

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21 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I guess you're the sort of guy who's in shock each time you hear of a crime.

Saying one thing isn’t shocking and another is “the issue”, singular, clearly means the first isn’t an issue.

The minor stuff is irrelevant in this conversation really, as everyone agrees that’s wrong, but the other stuff is also completely unacceptable and should not be seen as normal, regardless of how common it is.

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3 minutes ago, Hawros said:

Missing his point I think - the fact that it's not shocking is an issue.

Why?

Do you think not being shocked is code for "I don't care that this happens"? Why would you think that?

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3 minutes ago, Bradders said:

Saying one thing isn’t shocking and another is “the issue”, singular, clearly means the first isn’t an issue.

The minor stuff is irrelevant in this conversation really, as everyone agrees that’s wrong, but the other stuff is also completely unacceptable and should not be seen as normal, regardless of how common it is.

 

1 hour ago, The Nal said:

Adams behaviour with women is quite common. I don't find it shocking at all. Its the stuff with the teenager thats the issue. 

 

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Good, yes, thanks for quoting what he said to reiterate my point...

What with this and thinking Noel is playing 2019, you’re really having trouble reading things correctly these days ;)

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5 minutes ago, Bradders said:

Good, yes, thanks for quoting what he said to reiterate my point...

your point was his point.

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"A is common. B is the issue."

 

Gosh, what kind of silly pedant could possibly derive "There's only one issue and A isn't it" from those two sentences

 

What are we doing here?

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I was trying to clarify Bradders' point.

It's not my point (and not his) that this isn't shocking. It's the fact that someone (third person, society) can be made aware of these things, and isn't shocked / surprised by them that's the issue.

 

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7 minutes ago, Hawros said:

It's the fact that someone (third person, society) can be made aware of these things, and isn't shocked / surprised by them that's the issue.

I'd be much more shocked to hear of a day of no-crime than I would any crime in any day.

Why is it an issue that some people are aware that bad crimes go on all the time so that they're not shocked when they hear of another bad crime? 

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10 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

What are we doing here?

making one conditional to the other when they're not necessarily?

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Just now, eFestivals said:

I'd be much more shocked to hear of a day of no-crime than I would any crime in any day.

Why is it an issue that some people are aware that bad crimes go on all the time so that they're not shocked when they hear of another bad crime? 

Cos we should be better than that. We shouldn't pass this behaviour off as normal. 

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8 minutes ago, Hawros said:

I was trying to clarify Bradders' point.

It's not my point (and not his) that this isn't shocking. It's the fact that someone (third person, society) can be made aware of these things, and isn't shocked / surprised by them that's the issue.

 

Indeed. I think we've gone down a semantic cul de sac here. 

To clarify, people acting the total c**t in relationships isn't shocking and isn't new news. Its happening as we speak in one of your neighbours houses in some form. Don't get me wrong, its shit and shouldn't happen. It shouldn't be normal. But it is. I don't think that needs to be said. 

However from Adams point of view, its not illegal. The alleged grooming stuff is however. 

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1 minute ago, Hawros said:

Cos we should be better than that. We shouldn't pass this behaviour off as normal. 

who is passing it off as normal? What exactly do you mean by 'normal'?

It's abnormal behaviour, but such crimes going on within society is quite normal.

Being aware that such things go on every day is something different to passing it off as normal.

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3 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Indeed. I think we've gone down a semantic cul de sac here. 

To clarify, people acting the total c**t in relationships isn't shocking and isn't new news. Its happening as we speak in one of your neighbours houses in some form. Don't get me wrong, its shit and shouldn't happen. It shouldn't be normal. But it is. I don't think that needs to be said. 

However from Adams point of view, its not illegal. The alleged grooming stuff is however. 

Thanks for clarifying.

I actually think that needs to be said far more than the grooming stuff. We all know grooming is wrong and nobody disagrees. It’s being investigated and there’s nothing to discuss. 

The other stuff requires a conversation and to be seen as more than just bad but legal behaviour, as many still do.

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My word, how can people fail to grasp this?

It's not about being shocked or whatever - of course, yeh we know that bad stuff happens is so we're hardly shocked. I'm not shocked when I hear about a car bomb in Afghanistan. But then again, I don't search on twitter for people discussing an attack and start spouting that it's not shocking to me. We are literally in a topic talking about abuse and gendered power structures in music and the last few pages are people just saying that it doesn't shock them as if it some way is an argument for their point of view.

Edited by Garrett_Salas

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3 minutes ago, Garrett_Salas said:

the last few pages are people just saying that it doesn't shock them as if it some way is an argument for their point of view.

Nope. 

People have said they're not shocked.

Others have suggested their not-shocked is a non-condemning point of view.

Edited by eFestivals

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1 hour ago, The Nal said:

Adams behaviour with women is quite common. I don't find it shocking at all. Its the stuff with the teenager thats the issue. 

Sadly I don't find the other stuff shocking either nowadays

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