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19 minutes ago, zahidf said:

If there are multiple allegations from different women, then I work on the assumption it's broadly true. Not sure what facts or proof you want to come out really. Why would 15+ women lie and Adams be telling the truth?

 

No one is saying he should be hanged. Him having his albums and tours cancelled is the appropriate response

It's five actually, three of whom are ex-partners who given his character are hardly like to speak of him in glowing terms. Just being a shitty person doesn't mean you can't have an album or tour. Full blown criminal behaviour does. Have you burned all your Beatles records? Fleetwood Mac? Rolling Stones? Guns and Roses? Nirvana? Oasis? You get my point. 

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13 minutes ago, Superscally said:

It's five actually, three of whom are ex-partners who given his character are hardly like to speak of him in glowing terms. Just being a shitty person doesn't mean you can't have an album or tour. Full blown criminal behaviour does. Have you burned all your Beatles records? Fleetwood Mac? Rolling Stones? Guns and Roses? Nirvana? Oasis? You get my point. 

The fundemental difference seems to be that we believe the women and you want “proof”, though what kind of proof you’re looking for I don’t know.

He can have an album if someone wants to put it out, and he can try and tour if someone wants to put him on, but we can call him out on what he’s done and refuse to contribute to his career in any way.

Edited by Bradders

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8 minutes ago, Bradders said:

we believe the women 

sometimes even ones that don't exist. :P 

(that's a dig at someone else, not you. I've noticed the ones trying to talk it up don't have the best grasp of the facts).

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Who'd have thought a man called superscally who looks uncannily like Macho Man Ramdy Savage would be the beacon of rational thinking in all of this?

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Bradders said:

The fundemental difference seems to be that we believe the women and you want “proof”, though what kind of proof you’re looking for I don’t know.

He can have an album if someone wants to put it out, and he can try and tour if someone wants to put him on, but we can call him out on what he’s done and refuse to contribute to his career in any way.

I'm not saying that I don't believe that there were negative elements of his behaviour. What I don't know about is that how much of it actually occurred. You read the article it could sound like their lives were a living hell when it was merely a couple of incidents. Not defending those couple of incidents, mind and similarly not rushing out to get the new album or tour, but before I completely assassinate his character, I'd like to know more about the situation. I doubt any of us in here are perfect and there are probably elements of all of our characters that if the NYT decided to investigate and find people who'd seen them you'd be hung out to dry too. I'd certainly like to hear more than one side. Think that's fair enough. 

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6 minutes ago, Superscally said:

What I don't know about is that how much of it actually occurred. 

Nor do you know how much of it did not occur.  Your opinions are just that.

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Just now, clarkete said:

Nor do you know how much of it did not occur.  Your opinions are just that.

Errr...that's my point. I haven't expressed any opinions, I've just advised patience and temperance while information is collated and processed.

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8 minutes ago, Superscally said:

. I doubt any of us in here are perfect and there are probably elements of all of our characters that if the NYT decided to investigate and find people who'd seen them you'd be hung out to dry too.

You are telling on yourself HARD here

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4 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

You are telling on yourself HARD here

hey forum - no, the whole internet. Come and bow down to the infallible man.

Oh, no ... he's not that after all. He's fallible because he thinks he's not. 

:P 

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Look, I'm sure there's not many of us who wouldn't have a little bit of wiretapping and rat-fucking in our backgrounds if Woodward and Bernstein chose to investigate and find people who we'd diverted finances from a secret slush fund to. 

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Hopefully @FatAmmy was having a laugh... If not... :D Yup. That's me. Serial abuser, general bad news, scourge of society. Probably voted Brexit, but no deal didn't go far enough :D

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2 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

Let he who has never committed sex crimes with underage victims throw the first stone

I'll take two boulders and a bag of gravel please.

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I'm not a fan of this "innocent until proven guilty" argument. He is currently has very condemning allegations under his name, we can't just assume he is innocent due to the fact he hasn't had a guilty verdict in court. I do admit there is a certain level of hypocrisy about celebrities who preach against this who are known to have several skeletons in their closet themselves.

Edited by deadpheasant
quote not required

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Just now, deadpheasant said:

I'm not a fan of this "innocent until proven guilty" argument. He is currently has very condemning allegations under his name, we can't just assume he is innocent due to the fact he hasn't had a guilty verdict in court. 

Assuming innocent and presuming guilty are two different things. Whether you're a fan of it is also irrelevant. It's called the rule of law.

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1 minute ago, Superscally said:

I'll take two boulders and a bag of gravel please.

But seriously...don't you think it's a bit odd to deploy the "Well, nobody's perfect" style of argument in this situation?

Because, typically, the sort of people who deploy that argument are maybe not entirely comfortable with their own pasts and don't want to see someone face consequences for it, because then they would have to admit to themselves they did something wrong

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7 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Assuming innocent and presuming guilty are two different things. Whether you're a fan of it is also irrelevant. It's called the rule of law.

We’re not talking about the law though. We’re believing the accounts of several women which corroborate evidence of similar behaviour. He could be found innocent of all crimes but I still believe their account of his behaviour and wouldn’t support him again (not that I ever have tbf).

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2 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Assuming innocent and presuming guilty are two different things. Whether you're a fan of it is also irrelevant. It's called the rule of law.

You are bringing the discussion down to an issue of legality and that misses the point entirely. Much of his (and others behaviour) is not or wasn't against the law - the UK only recently brought in a law against controlling and coercive behaviour.

As with nearly all these allegations by women against men, they never ever go to court so this 'innocent until proven guilty' is a dead argument as there's nothing to prove terms of the law. The women have to bring it to the police and not suprisingly, having found the bravery to come forward, they don't often want to end up going to court, facing their abuser and having it all played out in public.

It fundamentally comes down to whether you believe the women or murmur that you've not got all the facts and stand on the sidelines until such time it's all 'proven'.

I'd suggest the latter part of that argument is why men get away with it so much and why women are afraid to come forward.

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7 minutes ago, Keithy said:

I'd suggest the latter part of that argument is why men get away with it so much and why women are afraid to come forward.

Plus, you've got cases like Ronaldo, where what he did absolutely was illegal, but he's powerful enough to make it go away until Der Spiegel did their own investigation, receipts and all. 

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33 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

But seriously...don't you think it's a bit odd to deploy the "Well, nobody's perfect" style of argument in this situation?

no more odd than others feeling the need to exaggerate the crimes, or to attack people for daring to have considerations different to their own.

The prisons are stuffed full of sex offenders but most get released and have to be dealt with within society. Talking them into non-existence doesn't work.

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1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Talking them into non-existence doesn't work.

What's that about feeling the need to exaggerate?

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11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

no more odd than others feeling the need to exaggerate the crimes, or to attack people for daring to have considerations different to their own.

The prisons are stuffed full of sex offenders but most get released and have to be dealt with within society. Talking them into non-existence doesn't work.

Shouldn't we have the reckoning before talking about rehabilitation?( ESP since Adams isn't being particularly penitent)

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So anyway 'F*ck the rain' was pretty bad... am i right?

John Mayer's solo couldn't save that poor song. 

'Flowers for brains
Permanent sunshine

Fuck the rain
All that pain
Don't
Everything is fine
Can you stop?
Can I be alive?'

Edited by Rico_Pliskin

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