Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[Mash011]

4 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Ok so what do you suggest we do with them? I'm not saying my idea is right by the way I'm just saying imo it would be better to try and open their eyes to different views and find out why they feel that way and what can be done to fix it or explain any misunderstanding they may have. Remember peoples opinions change all the time and by discussing stuff openly you can hopefully make them understand things differently then what they have been exposed to.

With the people in the photo? Kick them out of uni until they grow up a bit. But I mean the problem there isn't just being tories it's being overt antisemites, and that's not something you can easily undo with a cup of tea and a chat.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Mash011

[glastolover19]

7 minutes ago, Mash011 said:

With the people in the photo? Kick them out of uni until they grow up a bit. But I mean the problem there isn't just being tories it's being overt antisemites, and that's not something you can easily undo with a cup of tea and a chat.

Totally agree they need to grow up. But what do you do in the long run? Ignore them and then they views fester and distort more? Nuke them? Or try to get them to see different points of views and perhaps change? I'm not saying a quick tea and a chin wag will solve it but surely you should at least try to open their eyes.

Edited October 9, 2018 by glastolover19

[Mash011]

1 minute ago, glastolover19 said:

Totally agree they need to grow up. But what do you do in the long run? Ignore them and then they views fester and distort more? Nuke them? Or try to get them to see different points of views and perhaps change? I'm not saying a quick tea and a chin wag will solve it but surely you should at least try to open their eyes.

Well obviously there's a difference between what I have to do and what we have to do. I don't have to put up with these twats. No one is individually responsible to try and fix racists or whatever. But we have to actively reject hate wherever it appears, and yes work to educate ignorant people but that doesn't mean welcoming them to spread their hate in progressive spaces.

[dentalplan]

I don’t think they wrote it on their own shirts but I also don’t care about defending them.

[Mash011]

2 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

I don’t think they wrote it on their own shirts but I also don’t care about defending them.

As a group they wrote that on each other's shirts, no?

[glastolover19]

8 minutes ago, Mash011 said:

Well obviously there's a difference between what I have to do and what we have to do. I don't have to put up with these twats. No one is individually responsible to try and fix racists or whatever. But we have to actively reject hate wherever it appears, and yes work to educate ignorant people but that doesn't mean welcoming them to spread their hate in progressive spaces.

I think it's everyone's responsibility to build a world where we don't have hate of any kind. I'm also not saying give them an open mic to spout their views I'm simply saying we should be asking why these people feel that way

[glastolover19]

7 minutes ago, Mash011 said:

As a group they wrote that on each other's shirts, no?

True story. My year 11 leavers day a mate wrote on another kids shirt "Mrs Hudson smells of piss" ? the kid who wrote it got away with it and the kid whose shirt it was got lunch detention. In fairness though she did smell of piss

[amfy]

10 hours ago, glastolover19 said:

Ok so what do you suggest we do with them? I'm not saying my idea is right by the way I'm just saying imo it would be better to try and open their eyes to different views and find out why they feel that way and what can be done to fix it or explain any misunderstanding they may have. Remember peoples opinions change all the time and by discussing stuff openly you can hopefully make them understand things differently then what they have been exposed to.

If Tories in general are ‘OK really but just have different views to me’ - maybe some other Tories could start to move that lot a bit nearer to the point where I’d tolerate them being within a mile of me let alone ‘engaging’ with them.

If other Tories can’t manage to explain that this isn’t a good look, then I don’t rate my chances of managing to have any kind of discussion with them. In addition to this, it actually lowers my opinion of Tories in general, which is a surprise because that was already quite a low bar.

, 

[glastolover19]

5 minutes ago, amfy said:

If Tories in general are ‘OK really but just have different views to me’ - maybe some other Tories could start to move that lot a bit nearer to the point where I’d tolerate them being within a mile of me let alone ‘engaging’ with them.

If other Tories can’t manage to explain that this isn’t a good look, then I don’t rate my chances of managing to have any kind of discussion with them. In addition to this, it actually lowers my opinion of Tories in general, which is a surprise because that was already quite a low bar.

, 

I like that a whole group of people get judged based on the actions of those people in that picture,talk about tarring with the same brush

[amfy]

I didn’t say that - I am trying to say that Tories in general have a better chance of moving their opinion than me, because they will be closer on other points. They won’t be starting with such a large chasm between them.

They’ll have more common ground  - not because ALL Tories want to ‘fuck the NHS’ (although I’ll admit to having my suspicions about this), but because they might be able to talk to them about some of their other ideas e.g. privatising the NHS to make it more sustainable. After the ‘fuck the NHS’ person has been talked to that point by another Tory, then maybe I could talk to them about why I think privatisation is just another way to fuck the NHS.  If other Tories don’t want to begin to discuss a sustainable NHS with them, they I may start to think my suspicions that they all simply want to fuck the NHS are more well founded than I already do.

 

 

 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

tl;dr: Young Torys are grim and need to be kept a close eye on to prevent them growing so accustomed to using the ‘I’m only young let me live’ excuse that they still do that when they’re 38 like Shaun Bailey.

[clarkete]

17 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

I like that a whole group of people get judged based on the actions of those people in that picture,talk about tarring with the same brush

I think that whoosh was the point going over your head  

[glastolover19]

2 minutes ago, amfy said:

I didn’t say that - I am trying to say that Tories in general have a better chance of moving their opinion than me, because they will be closer on other points. They won’t be starting with such a large chasm between them.

They’ll have more common ground  - not because ALL Tories want to ‘fuck the NHS’ (although I’ll admit to having my suspicions about this), but because they might be able to talk to them about some of their other ideas e.g. privatising the NHS to make it more sustainable. After the ‘fuck the NHS’ person has been talked to that point by another Tory, then maybe I could talk to them about why I think privatisation is just another way to fuck the NHS.  If other Tories don’t want to begin to discuss a sustainable NHS with them, they I may start to think my suspicions that they all simply want to fuck the NHS are more well founded than I already do.

 

 

 

I get what you're saying but I'm sure it's a cross party thing to educate them as such? Have you never believed in something that 1 person has told you only later to find out it's not right from others? I just don't see how you change someones opinion if you're not willing to discuss your pov to make them understand that what they believe and have been taught is not right. I think we can agree a lot of the wars could have been avoided if we just talked through our differences

[amfy]

To be honest - I don’t think the things in that pictures are even points of view that warrant discussion. They are just young people trying to be shocking, and doing it in a really crass way. I’d leave them alone til they grow up a bit.

I have engaged with people with different views to me. I sat and talked to a young woman from ‘mothers for the EDL’ who wanted to recruit me while I was out for a drink for my birthday and it is important for me to know what has concerned her enough for her to take the stance she has. To be fair - she made more sense than the people in that picture. 

The problem is that people who write ‘fuck the nhs’ or wear Hitler moustaches for a laugh, don’t look to be expressing a genuine concern to me. They look to be just trying to be as offensive as possible because they are in the priveliged position of it not mattering what people think of them. The truth is that I don’t believe for one moment that they’d actually engage with me beyond ‘fuck off snowflake’. That’s why I think another Tory could make a better start on them.

[samblur1]

I’m not particularly a fan of The Tory party but have voted for them and yes I also voted to leave the EU. I have been to Glastonbury 6 times and I am going again...I’m definitely not a socialist and all my friends, work colleagues and family voted Brexit...Glastonbury is very left but I am not affraid to say what I believe as should nobody...this thread is cancer and the reason Trump won ?

[glastolover19]

2 minutes ago, amfy said:

To be honest - I don’t think the things in that pictures are even points of view that warrant discussion. They are just young people trying to be shocking, and doing it in a really crass way. I’d leave them alone til they grow up a bit.

I have engaged with people with different views to me. I sat and talked to a young woman from ‘mothers for the EDL’ who wanted to recruit me while I was out for a drink for my birthday and it is important for me to know what has concerned her enough for her to take the stance she has. To be fair - she made more sense than the people in that picture. 

The problem is that people who write ‘fuck the nhs’ or wear Hitler moustaches for a laugh, don’t look to be expressing a genuine concern to me. They look to be just trying to be as offensive as possible because they are in the priveliged position of it not mattering what people think of them. The truth is that I don’t believe for one moment that they’d actually engage with me beyond ‘fuck off snowflake’. That’s why I think another Tory could make a better start on them.

My point about engaging is not to give them a public platform to spout their views it's to give them the chance to see and discuss that things can be done differently and what they have been taught is not right. If you're only ever exposed to one way of thinking then naturally that's the way you end up thinking,I don't see the harm in showing the alternative in the hope they change. It's easy to condemn the fuck the nhs stuff but I'd be asking why fuck the nhs? I'd ask them what has made them feel that way then and possibly educate them.

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, samblur1 said:

I’m not particularly a fan of The Tory party but have voted for them and yes I also voted to leave the EU. I have been to Glastonbury 6 times and I am going again...I’m definitely not a socialist and all my friends, work colleagues and family voted Brexit...Glastonbury is very left but I am not affraid to say what I believe as should nobody...this thread is cancer and the reason Trump won ?

I haven't heard any mentions of efests in any of his speeches yet ....  

Edited October 10, 2018 by crazyfool1

[samblur1]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

I haven't heard any mentions of efests in any of his speeches yet ....

Russia are monitoring this thread closely for him

[Winslow Leach]

18 minutes ago, samblur1 said:

I’m not particularly a fan of The Tory party but have voted for them and yes I also voted to leave the EU. I have been to Glastonbury 6 times and I am going again...I’m definitely not a socialist and all my friends, work colleagues and family voted Brexit...Glastonbury is very left but I am not affraid to say what I believe as should nobody...this thread is cancer and the reason Trump won ?

You're gettin' nationalised mate and there's nothing you can do about it. 

[samblur1]

Thatcher and Churchill are the two greatest prime ministers we ever had

[Winslow Leach]

1 minute ago, samblur1 said:

Thatcher and Churchill are the two greatest prime ministers we ever had

[Mardy]

29 minutes ago, samblur1 said:

I’m not particularly a fan of The Tory party but have voted for them and yes I also voted to leave the EU. I have been to Glastonbury 6 times and I am going again...I’m definitely not a socialist and all my friends, work colleagues and family voted Brexit...Glastonbury is very left but I am not affraid to say what I believe as should nobody...this thread is cancer and the reason Trump won ?

Brexit is going to have a huge, harmful effect on Glastonbury. Far less diverse lineup, fewer touring bands. Less diverse audience. 

[glastolover19]

2 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Brexit is going to have a huge, harmful effect on Glastonbury. Far less diverse lineup, fewer touring bands. Less diverse audience. 

Surely based on a lot of the comments on here a less diverse audience is what a lot of people want

[Rose-Colored Boy]

32 minutes ago, samblur1 said:

I’m not particularly a fan of The Tory party but have voted for them and yes I also voted to leave the EU. I have been to Glastonbury 6 times and I am going again...I’m definitely not a socialist and all my friends, work colleagues and family voted Brexit...Glastonbury is very left but I am not affraid to say what I believe as should nobody...this thread is cancer and the reason Trump won ?

Congratulations on being stupid enough to be conned by Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, I can absolutely understand why that is something you’d want to brag about and you should definitely fly over to Northern Ireland and shout about it in a loud voice, it would end really well for you.

[henry bear]

7 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Surely based on a lot of the comments on here a less diverse audience is what a lot of people want

Glastonbury is all about diversity. Apart from bigots. They’d not be very welcome.