Oh no - another festival right after the election!

[Martin Ashford]

3 hours ago, TheSheriff said:

With the working class feeling so marginalised, resulting in the rise of far right politics. This is Corbyn's opportunity: his only chance of winning is to stand on a socialist programme:for the immediate introduction of a £10 minimum wage, re-nationalise the railways and Royal Mail now, end austerity - defend the NHS, education, council and civil service jobs as well as repeal the Trade Union Act and abolish all the anti-union laws and for a Workers' Brexit: collective bargaining, no loss of any workers' rights, the right of EU nationals to remain and no 'race to the bottom' by no longer adhering to anti-worker posted workers directives and ECJ judgements

Post of the day hands down!!

[Waapster]

14 minutes ago, Martin Ashford said:

Post of the day hands down!!

Ok, good luck. The first election I fought was subsequently described as the longest suicide note in history. Here we go again. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Waapster
Deleted an incorrect reference to Marx and history

[Mr.Tease]

6 hours ago, Alex DeLarge said:

Yeah, you're right, sorry I don't know why I said a couple instead of many. 

Labour's problem is that remain voters are seeing them as voting with Theresa May on everything and they're perceived as weak, whereas leave voters will just support May or UKIP until Brexit has fully been achieved and they see Labour as elitist, staunch remainers etc. I don't know what the solution is either, they are in a real pickle right now.

To be honest ambiguity was Labour's only option in response to brexit- if they openly resisted it they'd alienate a large chunk of their core voters, if they enthusiastically supported it they'd alienate a large chunk of their core voters- they're caught in a trap for the time being. 

[Mr.Tease]

7 hours ago, Purple aki squat said:

They must use the NHS and realise the damage being done. You are right about the mail

We live in a death denying culture so most people who will become reliant on social care and the NHS will quite happily vote for a party that will run them into the ground because they'll think they themselves will never become reliant on them. Then they'll be the first to complain about the shit treatment they got and will blame it on foreigners rather than themselves! 

[Mr.Tease]

8 hours ago, Gnomicide said:

I waver between Lib Dem and Labour, at heart I'm Lib Dem but know they have little chance of getting in where I live. Last time I went Labour who narrowly ousted the hideous Esther McVey. I liked the candidate and all seemed ok.

But I'm seriously pissed off with the stance over Brexit. We are one of the few areas in the north that voted remain. We have 4 labour MPs yet everyone of them bent over and voted to trigger article 50. If nothing else, I can look forward to a few interesting door step conversations. 

They had to because if they didn't they'd have p'd off the large chunk of their voters who voted leave. I get your annoyance and hope you enjoy tearing strips of them, but at the end of the day unless you vote for whichever candidate is more likely to beat the tories in your area, then you're essentially voting for a Tory hard brexit. 

[waterfalls212434]

12 hours ago, kalifire said:

This incoherent Tory bashing is why the left always loses. Who is going to vote for your cause who's not already part of it? Nobody outside of politics is persuaded by tactical voting. Not a single one. The left is preaching to its own naval. 

That's not to say the left should chase after popularism either. But it needs to do a much better job at presenting a coherent, believable future that people can envisage. The problem right now is that the left exists to serve itself. It can't see the wood for the trees. The Labour Party membership is bigger than ever so the Corbyn nucleas is delighted. Except that number is statistically insignificant so it's irrelevant. Corbyn et al can't seem to see past it. 

yeah how dare we bash the people fucking the country up eh? got news for you? Im not running for election last time I checked nor trying to convert people, im merely expressing my own opinion....so I will bash whoever the fuck I wish to thankyou very much, I dont care less if my views appeal to the majority, my views are my views. All that matters to me is that the torys are done away with, I dont care how it happens, I dont care who does it.....that should be the goal.

Edited April 19, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[waterfalls212434]

I think this election will spring a few suprises as well, I know young people for example were incredibly fucked off by the brexit vote which was seen by many as a betrayal of their futures, espcially those who were blocked from voting last time around, I think young people will turn out in record numbers this time around and that is not good news for the tories who as we know rely on the bitter old selfish `im alright jack` brigade who make up the majority of their support being pretty much unopposed.

We have the future of the nhs at stake also, a vote for the tories must be seen as a vote to end the nhs now as that is the plan either by stealth or upfront noone can say the torys plan to save the health service.....that will sway peoples minds also.

Lastly are we really doing this again over polls? look where worrying about polls got us last election time? the polls were well off......and they will be again, because with the brexit situation swinging votes, the increased number of young votes and those voting because they back things under threat from the tories such as the nhs.......I dont see how ANYONE can predict whats going to happen, there are to many unknown variables.

There was a poll carried out by the tories themselves just before this decision was made and quickly hushed up which showed not only major support for the recent policies annouced by labour but also major potential losses against lib dems when it comes to the tory partys so called `safe` seats esp those in which the people voted mainly remain..........so why then did may call an election now knowing this? and why is she now shitting herself starting by running away from having her policies debated live on tv? 

well take a look folks....you want to know why we just had an election announced? the real reason I mean?
https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-cps-considering-charges-against-over-30-people-including-tory-mps-over-expenses

it just so happened this came out the same day the election was.....announced funny that eh? this is a hail mary move by may because if she didnt she faced losing her majority because of these fraud charges.

so whod vote tory knowing they are only holding an election to dodge fallout from these upcoming criminal charges? 

Only a fucking idiot.

Edited April 19, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Obviously I will always vote, but I've always lived in ridiculously safe Conservative seats which is frustrating as my vote will never make a difference.

I think that we all need to face the facts though, this will be a Tory landslide and the Labour Party will be completely obliterated, there is simply no other possible outcome. It does however need to happen, like it or not Corbyn is completely unelectable and there is absolutely no point to the Labour Party if they cannot provide any sort of credible electable opposition to the Tory party. Like others have said, it would've happened in 2020 anyway and it would've been at least 2025 until we even had the chance of credible opposition, at least this way there is a chance that we get this slightly sooner. Like it or not the Labour Party need this impending decimation so something electable can rise from the ashes.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

I know young people for example were incredibly fucked off by the brexit vote

question is, are they actually fucked off enough about it to do what they didn't last June - get out and vote?

I doubt it, cos they* never have been.
(* of course, that's not every single of one of them).

[waterfalls212434]

Just now, eFestivals said:

question is, are they actually fucked off enough about it to do what they didn't last June - get out and vote?

I doubt it, cos they* never have been.
(* of course, that's not every single of one of them).

I think this time many more will be, the brexit situation is unique something they cannot avoid and claim to be ignorant of for one major thing, noone can say `oh it doesnt affect me` as many have before on various issues.

[waterfalls212434]

5 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I think that we all need to face the facts though, this will be a Tory landslide and the Labour Party will be completely obliterated, there is simply no other possible outcome. 

People like you are the reason for that tory landslide.......how about you get off your arse and try to change things for the better rather then moping and watching as the country falls into ruin because there was so many of you `just moping` rather then pro actively doing anything.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Just now, waterfalls212434 said:

People like you are the reason for that tory landslide.......how about you get off your arse and try to change things for the better rather then moping and watching as the country falls into ruin because there was so many of you `just moping` rather then pro actively doing anything.

Why did you ignore the paragraph above where I said obviously I always vote?

[CaledonianGonzo]

That Daily Mail cover is some straight out terrifying dystopian shit.

[arcade fireman]

8 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

People like you are the reason for that tory landslide.......how about you get off your arse and try to change things for the better rather then moping and watching as the country falls into ruin because there was so many of you `just moping` rather then pro actively doing anything.

Probably the biggest reason for the Tory landslide are those who have constantly cheered Corbyn's leadership.

Time to start thinking who is best equipped to be the next leader. 

[Gnomicide]

1 hour ago, Mr.Tease said:

They had to because if they didn't they'd have p'd off the large chunk of their voters who voted leave. I get your annoyance and hope you enjoy tearing strips of them, but at the end of the day unless you vote for whichever candidate is more likely to beat the tories in your area, then you're essentially voting for a Tory hard brexit. 

But THEIR voters voted remain. I get that the Labour candidates in other constituencies had to fall in line, I get that it would have made no difference but they're there to represent the people who put them in power and they failed.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Imagine still probably winning a landslide while this remains an issue.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-election-fraud-prosecutions-cps-election-campaign-result-overturn-battle-bus-a7689801.html

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

14 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

That Daily Mail cover is some straight out terrifying dystopian shit.

Just seen it, highly disturbing.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Imagine still probably winning a landslide while this remains an issue.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-election-fraud-prosecutions-cps-election-campaign-result-overturn-battle-bus-a7689801.html

that'll all be out in the open shortly before the vote - so if people care about it, it'll hurt the tory vote.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Meanwhile John McDonnell on Radio 4 insisting that this election isn't about Brexit.  Lord love a fucking duck.

[CaledonianGonzo]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that'll all be out in the open shortly before the vote - so if people care about it, it'll hurt the tory vote.

Thing is, I'm not sure that people will care.  As in the states, we're in a situation where our pols can get away with all sorts of dodgy-if-not-illegal stuff and people just aren't arsed.  Otherwise, Dr Liam Fox wouldn't be on the front bench.

[kalifire]

34 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

All that matters to me is that the torys are done away with, I dont care how it happens, I dont care who does it.....that should be the goal.

Well that's a tragedy but reflective of a great many in Corbyn's Labour. The goal should be competent, just governance. The last time this kind of unfocussed Tory bashing happened, Labour were out of power for a generation. The same thing will happen again until Labour offer a credible alternative and make that their platform. One of Labour's greatest strengths is the size of its membership but again, they need to stop the Tory bashing and articulate progressive, credible ideas. There's so much passion in the membership but it's all a bit out of control and descends into shouting about the Tories. If that's how they're seen, they will lose horribly.

[Mr.Tease]

6 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Meanwhile John McDonnell on Radio 4 insisting that this election isn't about Brexit.  Lord love a fucking duck.

He's right- the NHS and social care will not survive as is if the tories win- they are happily riding both into the ground. Labour scores better on those issues than the tories which is why they are trying to steer it onto those issues. Making the election solely about brexit is literally giving the them a blank check to do whatever they want in education, health, etc etc. 

[Mr.Tease]

3 minutes ago, kalifire said:

Well that's a tragedy but reflective of a great many in Corbyn's Labour. The goal should be competent, just governance. The last time this kind of unfocussed Tory bashing happened, Labour were out of power for a generation. The same thing will happen again until Labour offer a credible alternative and make that their platform. One of Labour's greatest strengths is the size of its membership but again, they need to stop the Tory bashing and articulate progressive, credible ideas. There's so much passion in the membership but it's all a bit out of control and descends into shouting about the Tories. If that's how they're seen, they will lose horribly.

Looking at the tories record, they are neither competent nor just, I don't get where this myth comes from that they are- look at Cameron's track record, look at May's as home secretary, look at Hammond, yet they seem to be made of Teflon! 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Thing is, I'm not sure that people will care.  As in the states, we're in a situation where our pols can get away with all sorts of dodgy-if-not-illegal stuff and people just aren't arsed.  Otherwise, Dr Liam Fox wouldn't be on the front bench.

well there you go, then. They don't have to care as much as you or I.

We might see that as a dreadful flaw, but whether it is or isn't doesn't matter in the end. They're as entitled to make their decision on their own criteria as you or I.

This is where so very many on 'the left' are going wrong. They think others need to 'smarten up' to their way of thinking, when the reality is that 'the left' need to be offering something that people will think the best alternative.

Nothing of this is any different to what its always been. A winner has to be good enough to work with reality - like the tories are able to do, or like Blair managed - or you're a sad fucker like Corbyn & co who blames the electorate for their own failings.

[CaledonianGonzo]

If Ed Milliband couldn't gain traction on that then I'm sceptical that Corbyn's Labour will see much headway.