This morning...

[Alex DeLarge]

9 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Having a conservative immigration policy doesn't make someone racist. 

I love the cushioning of Trump's statements as 'being Conservative' or 'disagreeing with them'! Trump has said he'll increase stop and frisk which will disproportionately affect African-Americans and he constantly posts false crime statistics about African-Americans in graphics created by white supremacists. He's specifically targeting Muslims in his 'immigration policy'. A Conservative immigration policy is something like Australia where it's equally hard for everyone to get in.  Trump is deliberately treating innocent people differently for their religious beliefs, in a policy which is nearly possible to enforce. What makes someone a Muslim? If they come from a Muslim family and practice all their lives yet on the day they're leaving for America suddenly convert? Will white, middle-class, British, liberal Muslims be banned?

Edited November 11, 2016 by Alex DeLarge
Autocorrect

[russycarps]

9 minutes ago, Keithy said:

For all this bluster and outrage, there is already a wall in place that it nearly 1000km long....

http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1814377,00.html

It started in 2005 and was continued and supported by the Obama administration. Infact Obama has deported 2.5m people, more than any president in history.

 

I'm amazed this isnt more widely known.

Because we are an island nation, we have no real concept of borders between countries. If anyone thinks we'd be any different if scotland was an independent country and always had been then they are crackers. 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by russycarps

[The Nal]

9 minutes ago, Alex DeLarge said:

I love the cushioning of Trump's statements as 'being Conservative' or 'disagreeing with them'! Trump has said he'll increase stop and frisk which will disproportionately affect African-Americans and he constantly posts false crime statistics about African-Americans in graphics created by white supremacists. He's specifically targeting Muslims in his 'immigration policy'. A Conservative immigration policy is something like Australia where it's equally hard for everyone to get in.  Trump is deliberately treating innocent people differently for their religious beliefs, in a policy which is nearly possible to enforce. What makes someone a Muslim? If they come from a Muslim family and practice all their lives yet on the day they're leaving for America suddenly convert? Will white, middle-class, British, liberal Muslims be banned?

Hes not banning anyone. He just said that to appear strong on protecting America to get votes. 

Don't take anything he said literally.

4 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I'm amazed this isnt more widely known.

Because we are an island nation, we have no real concept of borders between countries. If anyone thinks we'd be any different if scotland was an independent country and always had been then they are crackers. 

Some people seem to think that borders mean racism. Which is crazy. 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Alex DeLarge said:

I love the cushioning of Trump's statements as 'being Conservative' or 'disagreeing with them'! Trump has said he'll increase stop and frisk which will disproportionately affect African-Americans and he constantly posts false crime statistics about African-Americans in graphics created by white supremacists. He's specifically targeting Muslims in his 'immigration policy'. A Conservative immigration policy is something like Australia where it's equally hard for everyone to get in.  Trump is deliberately treating innocent people differently for their religious beliefs, in a policy which is nearly possible to enforce. What makes someone a Muslim? If they come from a Muslim family and practice all their lives yet on the day they're leaving for America suddenly convert? Will white, middle-class, British, liberal Muslims be banned?

Without trying to defend trump... much of that stuff is pretty standard Republican stuff. We might not like it, but that doesn't make him vastly different to the likes of Nixon or Reagan or Bush or ... erm .. Bush.

Yep, he also said some outrageous things, but people insist in trying to make those everything about him, when they were a very minor part, and said in a different context to how things became later on. He's backed away from them again and again and again, and were nothing of the TV debates or recent campaigning. Those outrageous things got him $2Bn's worth of free publicity.

Just yesterday he ran away from questions about whether he'd follow thru on what he'd said about Muslims - and it's not unreasonable to conclude he's similarly running away from acting them out. If he was the determined racist many are trying to paint him as, he'd have enjoyed restating his plans.

Likewise, yesterday he lauded Obama, rather than 'birther'-ing him, or any of the other derogatory stuff he's said.

And unlike Clinton, he's promised jobs, and better wages, and better opportunities, and all sorts of other jam. It might be bullshit, but there's plenty of good reasons why some have chosen to support him without a few long-ago racist sentences playing their part, and particularly when the only real alternative is widely detested even amongst the most dedicated Democrat supporters.

I'm sure he'll be a shit president because republicans always are, but whether he's more than that we've yet to see. There's sound reasons to believe that the biggest bollocks he spouted has gone back in its box.

[Alex DeLarge]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yep, he also said some outrageous things, but people insist in trying to make those everything about him, when they were a very minor part, and said in a different context to how things became later on. He's backed away from them again and again and again, and were nothing of the TV debates or recent campaigning. Those outrageous things got him $2Bn's worth of free publicity.

Just yesterday he ran away from questions about whether he'd follow thru on what he'd said about Muslims - and it's not unreasonable to conclude he's similarly running away from acting them out. If he was the determined racist many are trying to paint him as, he'd have enjoyed restating his plans.

I hope you're right that he goes back on the awful things he said, most of it is logistically impossibly anyway. Obama has already ensured planned parenthood will continue to be funded which is good. The most worrying thing about Trump is his Vice President thinking electrocuting gay children is a good idea and who he's going to select as his Supreme Court nomination which will effect minorities (and all Americans) for years to come. Trump may have said things just to gain Conservative support, but the worrying thing is many have already acted on this rhetoric today by abusing those Trump has spoken against.

[The Nal]

 

54 minutes ago, Alex DeLarge said:

I hope you're right that he goes back on the awful things he said

"Obama is the worst president of all time".

Yesterday: "I have great respect....some of the great things that have been achieved. Obama is a good man". 

The election is really like the lead up to a boxing or UFC fight. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by The Nal

[Quark]

Politician in says stuff to win votes shocker.

One line I did see that I liked was the hope that he's a good president, as wishing him to fail is like hoping the pilot crashes the plane we're all flying on.

Same for Brexit, May and all the crap here.

[Alex DeLarge]

1 minute ago, The Nal said:

"Obama is the worst president of all time".

Yesterday: "....some of the great things that have been achieved. Obama is a good man". 

That's not really the kind of awful thing I was referring to, but at least Trump's being respectful.

[Glastoboy]

 

Two good videos doing the rounds if you haven't seen them that both sum up the conversation on this thread in their own ways. The excellent Jonathan Pie and the much maligned Russell Brand.
 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Glastoboy

[The Nal]

Russell Brand is worse than Donald Trump. 

[eFestivals]

57 minutes ago, Alex DeLarge said:

I hope you're right that he goes back on the awful things he said, most of it is logistically impossibly anyway. Obama has already ensured planned parenthood will continue to be funded which is good. The most worrying thing about Trump is his Vice President thinking electrocuting gay children is a good idea and who he's going to select as his Supreme Court nomination which will effect minorities (and all Americans) for years to come. Trump may have said things just to gain Conservative support, but the worrying thing is many have already acted on this rhetoric today by abusing those Trump has spoken against.

so what you mean is ... fuck all about Trump in particular, and Republicans look like acting like Republicans always do.

That's not a great thing of course, but it's very normal for US politics, and it's not Hilter Mk 2.

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by eFestivals

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, russycarps said:

I'm amazed this isnt more widely known.

Because we are an island nation, we have no real concept of borders between countries. If anyone thinks we'd be any different if scotland was an independent country and always had been then they are crackers. 

 

It would be like the US and Canada. If most Scottish people weren't white however, then you would be absolutely right- the public would be shitting bricks

[Mr.Tease]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

so what you mean is ... fuck all about Trump in particular, and Republicans looks like acting like Republicans always do.

That's not a great thing of course, but it's very normal for US politics, and it's not Hilter Mk 2.

 

I agree it's likely just going to be a full on Republican presidency (which will be horrific)  the thing is do a lot of his Supporters realise that? They seemed to think they were getting an anti establishment non politician. Instead they've got another W Bush twerp

[Alex DeLarge]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

so what you mean is ... fuck all about Trump in particular, and Republicans look like acting like Republicans always do.

I'll repeat, I'm worried about Trump picking Pence as Vice President, his Supreme Court nomination and his supporters acting on his actions as well as his policies.

[GlastoSimon]

I may have said it before, but a lot of Trump's danger rests on whether he goes through with his 'social policies' and how much influence the likes of Pence have.

Economically etc. he seems to the left of your average Republican. Less likely to warmonger as well.

Edit: Left in terms of spending, not taxation. Usually with the Republicans it's lower taxes and spending when it comes to fiscal stuff.

Edited November 11, 2016 by GlastoSimon

[russycarps]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

It would be like the US and Canada. If most Scottish people weren't white however, then you would be absolutely right- the public would be shitting bricks

I'm not sure it's a white/non-white thing. More of a rich/poor divide. If mexico was as wealthy as canada and vice versa, then the wall would be built between the US and canada

 

 

[The Nal]

26 minutes ago, Alex DeLarge said:

I'll repeat, I'm worried about Trump picking Pence as Vice President, his Supreme Court nomination and his supporters acting on his actions as well as his policies.

Pence will be out cutting ribbons at the opening of Piggly Wigglys in Chattanooga for the next 4 years. His job is done. Don't worry about him. 

[eFestivals]

34 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I'm not sure it's a white/non-white thing. More of a rich/poor divide. If mexico was as wealthy as canada and vice versa, then the wall would be built between the US and canada

Yep.

I just lifted the post below from the similar discussion in the Discussions forum here....

12 minutes ago, lost said:

Look at it this way. Ronaldo has just signed a massive contract with real Madrid. Let's say I invent a Ronaldo cloning machine and give every Spanish club 11 Ronaldo's. It's likely that he wouldn't get such a massive contract if that happens and so wont want those Ronaldo's anywhere near Spanish football even though they are genetically identical to him

[stuartbert two hats]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yep.

I just lifted the post below from the similar discussion in the Discussions forum here....

 

 

Talking of which - this thread is seriously depressing and I can't think of even a tenuous link to Glastonbury.  Time to move it?

Edited November 11, 2016 by stuartbert two hats
post -> thread

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Talking of which - this thread is seriously depressing and I can't think of even a tenuous link to Glastonbury.  Time to move it?

I find radiohead music and erasure posts depressing. Time to move them?

 

[stuartbert two hats]

Just now, eFestivals said:

I find radiohead music and erasure posts depressing. Time to move them?

 

I do enjoy some not entirely on-topic threads on this forum, I admit

[The Nal]

44 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I do enjoy some not entirely on-topic threads on this forum, I admit

Like this one?

Elbow & Excitement in the same sentence is not on topic. 

[Spindles]

2 hours ago, The Nal said:

The election is really like the lead up to a boxing or UFC fight. 

There is a great podcast, with Louis Theroux principally talking about scientology with Joe Rogan, where 2 intelligent and well informed people discuss the election on and off, from the perspective of how things were at the end of August.  The point is made several times that basically that was how Trump was playing it.

Well worth a watch/listen if you have the time.  It has some fascinating insights into scientology that really don't get discussed in the public debate, which as with most things these days is dominated by a kind of tabloid soundbyte understanding of any given subject which leads to an oversimplified view being perpetuated.

 

[The Nal]

6 minutes ago, Spindles said:

There is a great podcast, with Louis Theroux principally talking about scientology with Joe Rogan, where 2 intelligent and well informed people discuss the election on and off, from the perspective of how things were at the end of August.  The point is made several times that basically that was how Trump was playing it.

Well worth a watch/listen if you have the time.  It has some fascinating insights into scientology that really don't get discussed in the public debate, which as with most things these days is dominated by a kind of tabloid soundbyte understanding of any given subject which leads to an oversimplified view being perpetuated.

Nice one Spindles will defo give that a listen today!

[arcade fireman]

8 hours ago, Teddington said:

 

Not great? 

 

What has Americal done for us? 

 

"Well there's the production line".  "Granted the production line........"

Oh and the CPU

Saved us from Totalitarianism........

I'm not going to go on with the Python esque diatribe but I'm sure you get the picture.

Every country of any appreciable size has its share of historical innovations. And how on earth can you talk about "saving us from totalitarianism" while glossing over the millions of deaths their conflicts have caused?!

And my comments were about the state of America in 2016 which is an outlier amongst Western countries on many metrics of a civilised society - none of which Trump cares about improving.