General Election 2015

[krisskross]

The real killer for Labour has been UKIP. Theres no question that labour supporters have defected and in greater numbers than Tory voters.

[eFestivals]

you can't help yourself. The Labour party needs to learn lessons from yesterday. If it does what you do & blames it all on the SNP it will avoid learning those lessons & condemn itself to a generation in the political wilderness. In 5 years time, as others have pointed out it is likely to face revised boundaries & EVEL so it seriously needs to get its finger out.

Or they could just sit round drinking americanos & moaning about the nasty Nats.

did the nationalists - in England, Scotland and Wales - urge people not to vote Labour, and therefore strengthen the tories?

The Labour party is already fucked. Like it or not, it's Scotland that's fucked it. The UK no longer has any united opposition to the tories, so the tories reign unopposed.

Or they could just sit round drinking americanos & moaning about the nasty Nats.

You're as accurate with that as you were with your repeated stated belief that if Labour lost they'd lose because they weren't left wing enough. Show me the left wing vote; it's no more in Scotland.than it is anywhere else.

Putting yourself first is Thatcherism.

Following the u-turners only had you knocking yourself over.

[bunique]

That's the bit I don't get - it seems we are now a right wing country. How, if at all, do we challenge/overcome that? I would love to work at grass roots level to do something but I'm struggling to see what will help!

[gary1979666]

you can't help yourself. The Labour party needs to learn lessons from yesterday. If it does what you do & blames it all on the SNP it will avoid learning those lessons & condemn itself to a generation in the political wilderness. In 5 years time, as others have pointed out it is likely to face revised boundaries & EVEL so it seriously needs to get its finger out.

Or they could just sit round drinking americanos & moaning about the nasty Nats.

It's a fair point. You could argue the SNP took the Scottish votes from Labour, but equally Labour lost them (as well as not managing the situation in England that well either.

Next time round they'll have a more centrist leader, as they'll have learned that left won't win in England.....not sure what will happen in Scotland though with that.

[eFestivals]

there's no way of knowing, because there's so much tactical voting which could diminish if there was PR

tactical voting to ensure a right wing govt.

Did you miss that part of things?

There'll certainly be no turn around for the 'left' until the left takes it head out of it's arse.

Not that it's 'left' anyway, and it still couldn't get anti-tory support - which only gets to show how things really are.

I fucking hate how they are, but it doesn't change by denial.

[GlastoSimon]

The real killer for Labour has been UKIP. Theres no question that labour supporters have defected and in greater numbers than Tory voters.

Perhaps up north, but I think the true colours of former Lib Dem voters has been revealed over the last 24 hours.

[The Nal]

Putting yourself first is Thatcherism capitalism

Fascinating day from an outsiders prospective. People just didn't buy Odd as a PM did they?

3 leaders gone in under an hour. Madness. Whos next for Labour? Harriet?!

Edited May 8, 2015 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

You could argue the SNP took the Scottish votes from Labour, but equally Labour lost them (as well as not managing the situation in England that well either.

and you can also argue that the vote for the SNP removed all hope of Labour being able to manage the situation in England.

Anyone who is still denying that the nationalist surge in Scotland hasn't caused a nationalist surge in England are in Eygpt denial.

All we have left for UK politics is nationalist war. Get used to the new UK.

[eFestivals]

Whos next for Labour? Harriet?!

What's next for Labour? The wilderness.

That's where nationalism has taken us.

[GlastoSimon]

Christ, all the new Labour leader candidates are utterly depressing.

[The Nal]

Christ, all the new Labour leader candidates are utterly depressing.

Yeah thats what I was thinking.

Think things are bad now, wait until they've no one decent to put out there when Boris runs!

[krisskross]

The test for the SNP will be how many of their candidates abuse MP's expenses. That along with the Westminster - Scotland commute. Could make / break some before the year is out. Murdoch'll get some good headlines too...

[russycarps]

Show me the left wing vote; it's no more in Scotland.than it is anywhere else.

it's in Wales!

[eFestivals]

Yeah thats what I was thinking.

Think things are bad now, wait until they've no one decent to put out there when Boris runs!

Chicken Dave will do all the nasty stuff and the EU referendum, and then resign for Boris - who gets a year or two trouble-free and the tories get elected with a Thatcher-type majority.

You read it here first.

[eFestivals]

The test for the SNP will be how many of their candidates abuse MP's expenses.

We don't have to look to the future.

Proportionally, SNP MPs were taking the piss with expenses more than the MPs from any other party bar the tories.

-------------

And then you have the snippers turning on Murphy for him doing the exact same thing as an SNP MP who got a free pass.

There's no sense to be found from snippers, only nonsense.

Edited May 8, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

did the nationalists - in England, Scotland and Wales - urge people not to vote Labour, and therefore strengthen the tories?

The Labour party is already fucked. Like it or not, it's Scotland that's fucked it. The UK no longer has any united opposition to the tories, so the tories reign unopposed.

You're as accurate with that as you were with your repeated stated belief that if Labour lost they'd lose because they weren't left wing enough. Show me the left wing vote; it's no more in Scotland.than it is anywhere else.

Putting yourself first is Thatcherism.

Following the u-turners only had you knocking yourself over.

Astonishingly, the nats encouraged folk to vote Nat in Scotland & Wales. I presume even you wouldn't blame them for that. Contrary to your personal mythology they did not try & tell people how to vote in England. (other than one instance very early on where sturgeon stated a vague preference for the Greens)

On the contrary, both the SNP & Plaid repeatedly stressed there willingness to work with Labour. The only logical interpretation of that is that they were encouraging the English to vote Labour. As the Labour party was their main opponent in Scotlan. It would have been politically insane for them openly to ask people to vote Labour.

I don't know if Labour lost because they weren't left wing enough. What I do believe is that there is no fucking point in a Labour party that veers back to the right again as a reaction to this result.

You say there are no votes for left wing policies in this country. I say it is over 30 years since any party campaigned with passion for such policies.

Miliband's policies may have been admirable by and large but they were almost apologetic about them.

Time for some fire in the belly.

Dennis Skinner for Labour leader:)

Edited May 8, 2015 by LJS

[TheGayTent]

That's the bit I don't get - it seems we are now a right wing country.

The UK has been a centre right country for donkeys years.

[russycarps]

The UK has been a centre right country for donkeys years.

yep when havent we been?

Why would a country like the uk be left leaning? How do people think we got to be the 5th richest country in the world?

[neil999]

Yeah thats what I was thinking.

Think things are bad now, wait until they've no one decent to put out there when Boris runs!

whats wrong with burnham? i think he comes across very well and he looks pretty normal(which seems to matter in an election..)

[russycarps]

LibDem's voted Tory

Labour (in Scotland) voted SNP

does that sum it up?

and labour (in england) voted ukip

Edited May 8, 2015 by russycarps

[TheGayTent]

yep when havent we been?

Why would a country like the uk be left leaning? How do people think we got to be the 5th richest country in the world?

I assume you missed the point I was making

[LJS]

That's the bit I don't get - it seems we are now a right wing country. How, if at all, do we challenge/overcome that? I would love to work at grass roots level to do something but I'm struggling to see what will help!

As I've just said, people won't vote for a left wing party unless that party is clearly campaigning to win hearts & minds & not just votes. People need to be persuaded not patronised.

[russycarps]

I assume you missed the point I was making

I was agreeing with you...

[The Nal]

whats wrong with burnham? i think he comes across very well and he looks pretty normal(which seems to matter in an election..)

Agree, but a scouse PM? Can't see people having that.

Would be some campaign though. Boris vs a bloke from Liverpool! Fight fight fight....

[jump]

I'd be surprised if it's Harriet, I would of thought it's between Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham.