Ticket Touts

[gibbin82]

Thought this government e'petition to make ticket touting illegal (as it is for sports events) may be of interest to anyone who has missed out on any (non Glastonbury) event tickets and had to end up paying well over face value to get them from eBay ticket touts or similar.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47255

Not wanting to encourage spamming but if you think it appropriate it might be good idea to post it on any other live music based forums you frequent

Edited October 12, 2013 by gibbin82

[Redwinevino]

How would this ever work?

Maybe I am lucky but I have never paid over face for a gig when buying from a tout

[gibbin82]

Redwinevino I think you should count your self very lucky if you have bought from touts and not paid over the odds.

The way these e'petitions work is if they get over 100,000 votes it gets brought up in parliament for debate as an issue of considerable public concern.

[dan05delaney]

I've bought from touts a few times, its a great way to get tickets before face value if you've got the gift of the gab and don't mind cutting it fine

[gmb1992]

Whaytabout Glastonbury's 'hospitality' campsites that charge an arm and a leg. It has its very own way of touting tickets to those who can afford it

[MrZigster]

I may be a bit behind the times here, but didn't touts work out that you could get around the legislation by saying "I'm selling a pencil with a free Man Utd ticket"?

[UEF]

To play devil's advocate; I do find it puzzling how people are generally OK with the buying and selling of any other commodity but get weird when it's about gig tickets. It's as if theyre petitioning the government to add an exclusion to the established principles of buy and demand.

Oh that basis, I'd want to see an end to automated systems that instantly purchase thousands of tickets or transfer to viagogo etc,, but I don't think you should (or should) end normal touting except maybe by taxing it. After all, we're all comfortable with auctioning off anything else we buy.

Edited October 14, 2013 by UEF

[eoinca]

Yeah, I don't see why 2 people shouldn't be allowed engage in the private sale of any commodity for any agreed price.

[zico martin]

Oh course not eoinca but it is the purchasing of limited items for the sole purpose of reselling for a profit which is the issue and the fact this prevents the'real' fans on getting a ticket.

[eoinca]

Oh course not eoinca but it is the purchasing of limited items for the sole purpose of reselling for a profit which is the issue and the fact this prevents the'real' fans on getting a ticket.

[Mr.Tease]

Oh course not eoinca but it is the purchasing of limited items for the sole purpose of reselling for a profit which is the issue and the fact this prevents the'real' fans on getting a ticket.

[russycarps]

To play devil's advocate; I do find it puzzling how people are generally OK with the buying and selling of any other commidity but get weird when it's about gig tickets. It's as if theyre petitioning the government to add an exclusion to the established principles of buy and demand.

Oh that basis, I'd want to see an end to automated systems that instantly purchase thousands of tickets or transfer to viagogo etc,, but I don't think you should (or should) end normal touting except maybe by taxing it. After all, we're all comfortable with auctioning off anything else we buy.

[grumpyhack]

The aims might be laudable but I wonder how workable they are. For example, last night five of us went to see a Chas n Dave gig at a small club in Cardiff. Originally seven of us were going and one of the group bought tickets on line in advance for everyone. At the last minute, for family reasons, two weren't able to make it.

If we had offered the two spare tickets to others queuing for the qig would that have been touting?

I applaud the way Glastonbury sets about trying to cut out mainstream ticket touting but isn't there a difference between an event announced a year ahead and a gig at your local club? I can't see how you could have something like pre-registration and photo ID tickets for what, in some cases, aren't much more than pub gigs.

[salvador wali]

really? it really puzzles you how a ticket for a gig is different from a TV or a packet of crisps?

what a thick twat.

[GuitarManDan15]

Buying a scare resource solely to sell at inflated price to someone who did not get one first time round is essentially good business. Its just like being a trader; you buy something at one price sell it on for more (with the possibility you may sell it for less). But buying and selling shares, oil, corn or something of that ilk has no emotional value.

Take football for example, there are very few instance where a market can have its 'firms' operate that poorly and still exist. If normal companies had finances like football clubs they would all fold but there is an emotional value to that company. If the club goes out of business then (x) amount of people can longer go and watch that football club and support it. The same with a gig, if touts buy all the tickets and the average price of obtaining a ticket doubles from the face value (x) amount of people who could go at the face value price can now no longer go. Which is the point of supply and demand, but this is with a product of emotional value as opposed to a generic good. If a TV is too expensive for you then you buy the next one down in the 'range' that is within your budget. A gig doesn't have that option!

I always think that touting outside of venues should be illegal and online it should be illegal to sell a ticket for more than face value + 20%, which means genuine fans reselling tickets can recoup all the money they spend (delivery and booking fees), people who buy second hand tickets don't get ripped off and touts have very little opportunity to make money online before a gig.

If you could eliminate internet touting then on the day touting must have limited earning potential as the closer you get to show time the more likely you are to lose all the money you spent on the ticket as opposed to at least breaking even. Then hopefully over time people will stop seeing it as a worthwhile activity.

Anyway my 2 cents on the situation.

[DJL]

If we had offered the two spare tickets to others queuing for the qig would that have been touting?

Edited October 13, 2013 by DJL

[gibbin82]

Not if you were selling them at face value, which i'm sure you would have.

I'd like to see a system where at or below face value is fine (like scarlet mist) but i don't believe third parties who do not need to be part of the process should make money out of me buying a gig ticket. Artists, venues, promoters, record companies etc fine but we don't need touts.

[gibbin82]

really? it really puzzles you how a ticket for a gig is different from a TV or a packet of crisps?

what a thick twat.

[Bobs]

Ban Viagogo, StubHub and all that and you'll well be on your way.....

Legalised Touting? You having a bloody laugh?

[frostypaw]

Arguments that it's not harmful are a fallacy - these people manage to make a living out of it so there's clearly a high premium on average on the tickets they sell

That can't be fair - the only person benefiting is the tout and the people paying for their lives are fans

[gibbin82]

Ban Viagogo, StubHub and all that and you'll well be on your way.....

Legalised Touting? You having a bloody laugh?

[Spindles]

It could also be said that the bands, record companies, venues, promoters and crew also lose out, as it increases the amount spent by people going to the gig without increasing the amount those parties make.

A gig ticket is not like a packet of crisps, brilliantly explained with reference to the emotional value of the product above.

I don't believe in banning resale, I've sold tickets I couldn't use at a loss happily. I do think that any resale should be locked at the cost value of the ticket (plus reasonable administrative cost).

[artl]

If a petition secures more than 100,000 signatures it can be considered by MPs for a debate in Parliament. There is no g'tee that it will be. The only interest the govt would have would be if tax laws are being broken - unless vodafone, amazon or starbucks are selling them of course

[Yesiamaduck]

Crisps aren't limited

Tickets are

Buying large quantities of tickets for the soul purpose of selling them on is a dick move, especially as you're artificially inflating the market by setting the prices high but also by restricting the amount of tickets available. That's why it's different to any other commodity, any other commodity has a substitute available, isn't extremely limited and isn't restricted not only in number but by a date. It's predatory in the worst way possible and it's also anti-consumer.

People should never have the right to re-allocate a ticket removed from them, however if they are buying and selling large volumes of tickets then something has to be done. Glastonbury fortunately are combating it to a degree of success, however it sucks to be you if you get sick.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Yesiamaduck

[Bobs]

But surely legalised touting is what we already have, so if it is a huge company such as TicketMasters Get Me In or an individual buying up as many as they can to sell at a profit it's all touting. And anyway most of these new companies such as StubHub are just an alternative outlet to eBay for individual touts.