Football 2011-2012

[ralph250]

Im no good with stats but I'd love to know how many times those 4 played with each other. Even ignoring the obvious provisos youve volunteered yourself, I wouldnt say it was that many.

The short answer to your question, however, is yes - I think the current team is better. Each of the players you mentioned has (at times anyway) doubted LFC in terms of their own ambitions. Only one thusfar has been proven justified in seeking to ply their trade elsewhere. Recent interview with Xabi raised a lot of eyebrows on his own level of satisfaction with his move. In Torres' last months at LFC he had a lip on him you could trip over. With him gone we have Suarez, Carroll and Bellamy to play up front. A headache for any defence. Xabi and Masch were defensive leaning players. In Lucas we have someone who has jumped up a few levels in recent months - in the last 20 minutes of a game he looks much more effective going forward with the ball than Javier ever did.

LFC clearly a much more balanced side now with a natural instinct to move forward. Last manager to sucumb to these instincts was Evans! We have options on the bench to change the style of play. We are a more unpredictable outfit in this season than last. Far more competition for players.

We may not have the kind of marquee names that you mention above anymore, but what we have replaced those big egos with has been team spirit and more togetherness than any time in recent memory. This is vital and has been severely lacking. I was getting seriously cheesed off with the "Stevie and Nando" homo-hugs after every goal. The goals against Bolton were celebrated by the whole team.

[eFestivals]

Surprised Cahill stayed aswell Neil.

Can understand Bolton rejecting £6m, as Cahill would help ensure survival and each league placing if worth close to a £1m, but then equally read (Duncan Castle's I think (Sunday Times)) Arsenal's bid was actually £8m with £1m after 50 appearances and an additional £2m performance rated. I would've thought £10-12m would do it, and would be surprised if Spurs didn't match that either, so be interesting if again brinksmanship gone wrong. Whether Bolton this morning are thinking great we've held onto him or crap, we've just lost £12m.

Can sell him I guess in January but will very cut-price by that stage.

Gartside (Garside?) tweeted at 11pm last night: "phewwww". So I'm guessing he was happy that Cahill stayed.

I reckon Spurs put in a piddly offer as a vague hope at the last minute cos no one else had had him. What's gone on at Spurs strongly suggests to me that their biggest priority this window was to cut the wage bill, because 'Arry had turned them from an always profitable club into one that's turning a loss. Against that, they probably felt Cahill was worth making a low offer for, just in case it got accepted.

[The Nal]

but generally teams find a way around it, and sometimes even frees them up. Players no longer living in the shadow or them taking more responsibility.

[eFestivals]

Arrival of Coates will offset any loss of Meireles in terms of Suarez remaining settled.

yep, it should do - but things like a mate within the club leaving often unsettle a player. Fingers crossed it doesn't.

If Liverpool don't make the Chumps this season tho they might well struggle to hang onto Suarez.

[eFestivals]

I agree liverpools team spirit is invaluable. I think they will also be boosted by the fact arsenal have bought in solid but not spectacular player. Arsenal have defintely weakened since june and thats a huge boost to the chasing pack.

Hmmmm, I'm not so sure that Arsenal will be weaker.

The two players brought in last night aren't of course as skillful as Cesc and Nasri, but they bring other attributes, ones the club has been lacking - their work-rate and experience, and actually caring about winning. Those things might actually cause Arsenal to be stronger than they were.

We'll have to wait and see how things work out, but I'd be careful about writing them off too soon.

[eFestivals]

Will be interesting if Gerrard changes the dynamic when/if he returns aswell. Liverpool's form has come in his absence

that's not quite true - he was defo involved in the win at Chelsea, and I think (can't remember) the win against Utd too. He was a part of the upturn at the club, tho admittedly only for a short while before injury.

I'm still having trouble seeing how Kenny is planning to use the players he has, but given his lack of fear of doing something different (such as the changes he made at the back in his earlier games in charge) - and which worked out so well too - I'm guessing he has a plan.

[ralph250]

If Liverpool don't make the Chumps this season tho they might well struggle to hang onto Suarez.

[ralph250]

Gartside (Garside?) tweeted at 11pm last night: "phewwww". So I'm guessing he was happy that Cahill stayed.

I reckon Spurs put in a piddly offer as a vague hope at the last minute cos no one else had had him. What's gone on at Spurs strongly suggests to me that their biggest priority this window was to cut the wage bill, because 'Arry had turned them from an always profitable club into one that's turning a loss. Against that, they probably felt Cahill was worth making a low offer for, just in case it got accepted.

[Wooderson]

he's outta there!

[strummer77]

My goodness, worrying about Suarez because Meireles has gone. Let's see what happens eh?

I'd be more worried about RVP f**king off because the stars are leaving and are being replaced like a husband shopping in a garage on Christmas Eve.

Edited September 1, 2011 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

I'd be more worried about RVP f**king off because the stars are leaving and are being replaced like a husband shopping in a garage on Christmas Eve.

[TheGayTent]

have a feeling both Bridge and the spitter will end up at the Boleyn in the next few weeks.

We have a good squad now, though will play dire football.

[Benj]

To go against all the media reporting, Im more than happy with Everton's business yesterday

Areta has not been the same player since his injury and not really featured in the last 18 months, 10 million sovs and 15 million in wages saved over the next 4 years is very much needed.

Obv would like to have seen him and (personally as I love him) the Yak stay but we they are far more valuable to Everton gone, with the wage savings and transfer fees.

All in 16 million in the bank and over I suspect (assuming conservatively 75 for Arteta, 50 for Yakubu, 30 for Beckford and 20 for Vaughan) 9 million a year off the wage bill.

and still a strongish team/ squad-

Howard

Neville Jagielka Distin Baines

Coleman Rodwell Fellaini Drenthe

Barcley

Saha

Bench- New Argie Grock, Osman, Cahill, Anichebe, Bilyaletdinov, Gueye, Heitinga, Hibbert, Baxter, Mucha, Yobo

(Random foreign signings are also ace too, until they end up being shite!)

[kaosmark2]

In two minds about Arsenal. I think it's good they've brought in some experienced heads and a bit of premiership experience at that. Arsenal fans will hope Arteta recovers form, but makes sense given Wengers opted against prem based defenders for whatever reason; most likely cost/quality ratio.

Cahill, Jagielka, Samba, only really Baines for leftback considering missed the boat on Enrique. All their respective clubs were looking for £15-20m. Some would argue it'd be worth it for a premiership acclimitised defender given Arsenal's frailties, some wouldn't, but if not then needs increase for a prem-based midfielder imo and Arteta (and to a lesser extent Benayoun) make sense from that point of view. There's not a whole load of alternatives in the prem in the creative mould.

I think its arguable they haven't made that signing that sends a real signal of intent on the European scene (Liverpool fans will be content that Wenger hasn't splashed £70m for instance), and will be interesting how it'll be received by Van Persie, Walcott and Vermaelen, all with just 2 years left on their contract, so able to do a Nasri next year. Whether this summer has been a big enough sign of ambition for them will further define whether Arsenal have salvaged this window or not.

Against that though, generally have to secure those top quality signings ahead of the rest when they're reasonably young (19-22) and not already snatched up by a rival where hard to prise from. Had they done that earlier in the summer might have been good to go, as a fresh start from the poor close to the season, pre-season to integrate etc. Club may have been lifted and they might've started the season with better form than they have. But with it going on as it has, and the club in a bit of a crysis of confidence following the 8-2 and previous 6 months, there's argument whether for now, that burden would be too much to shoulder for additional youth without pre-season to adjust (eg. had he splashed c.£50m on Hazard (19), M'Vila (21) who they were both heavily linked with).

Arteta 29, Benayoun 31, Santos 28, Mertesacker 26, Park 26 are all at the requisite age and experience where should hope they'll help galvanise the team and help them pull through this.

Mertesacker captained Werder, Arteta has captained Everton in Neville's stead, Benayoun captains Israel, Park captains South Korea following Ji-Sung's retirement.

They needed leadership, though questionable how useful it'll be if they don't speak English. Park doesn't appear to, following his first interview. Not sure about Mertesacker and Santos. Will need to learn quick if not, as last thing Arsenal needs is lack of communication at the back. Mertesacker's an intelligent player though, should help organise the backline.

Do think there's question marks over all 5 mind, and a slight sense of bargain hunting, indicating not all's right at sea.

Park - Monaco relegated plus cheaper due to threat of national service.

Santos - Fenerbahce excluded from CL due to match-fixing scandal, so would want out, and Fenerbahce likely looking to reduce wagebill considering hit in income. Brazilian international, haven't seen much of him but general consensus of good going forward, poor at the back.

Mertesacker - entering last year of contract, coming off a poor season. Mobility questions.

Arteta - not coming off a great season.

Benayoun - superfluous at Chelsea, spent 7 months out last year.

With all that. Whether they are of the quality to improve the side and challenge for silverware remains to be seen. Might be a case of tempering expectations and hoping their enough to fight for 4th, but they should hopefully for Arsenal help stem the flow, and take some of the weight off. e.g. Ramsey's still coming back from injury really and has needed to be chucked in probably quicker than Wenger would've liked.

They'll have experience to pass down to the younger generations aswell. Wenger's always been praised for selling at the right time - and there's some justification in the fees received and that those players generally haven't hit the same heights on an individual level - but I think it's evident he hasn't got the mix right in these last years and more and more looks like he dismantled the invinceables far too quickly. Most of those have gone on to win silverware elsewhere and even if not hitting their previous form on a personal level, their presence and experience has no doubt helped in the dressing room at those new clubs, and would've continued to do so at Arsenal. Pink Triangle had it spot on (and it's been discussed a fair bit on redcafe and the like), how Fergie creates tiers to aid transition. In the past Wenger kept those experienced players on late into their 30s; Dixon played until he was 38, Adams until around 36, Keown, Bergkamp etc, but following the invinceables, that paradigm seems to have shifted, and I'm not sure whether that's by a board-driven directive to cut costs, a case of the players that left searching for pastures new (cost of Wenger's propensity for multi-nationals? English players less inclined to look abroad) or a case of Wenger's design. Possibly a mixture of all three, but last few years seemed to have been a personal ambition of Wenger embarking on his youth strategy to win with kids, hoping to emulate Fergie with class of '92 or Van Gaal with Ajax in the mid 90s. (Overmars, Kluivert, Seedorf, Davids etc etc), and Ajax have always been one of his key influences. But even with United in 95-96, that generation had likes of Cantona, Keane, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, Schmeichel. The alchemy hasn't been right at Arsenal.

As such, perhaps these signings will be what the club needs. Arsenal will be lifted by Liverpool losing a good squad option right at the death and Spurs struggling to make additions. Hope to settle, achieve at least 4th and reassess next summer.

Big amount of player turnover (around a dozen in and around 20 players sold/loaned/released) and a relatively fresh start may do them good.

Personally I just hope Wenger's health is good. Under immense amounts of stress currently.

[kaosmark2]

Surprised on that, failed in the hijacked bid of Ruiz so guess they were trying, but always surprised clubs leave it so late. Brinkmanship gone wrong.

Thought you were meant to be getting Macheda on loan, but that went quiet. Bit raw still, but numbers might've helped. Think Ba can get goals, but Ba, Amoebi, Best and Lovenkrands isn't the most formidable frontline.

Saying all that though, I don't think general business has been that bad this summer. Santon could be a great coup, Cabaye should fit in well, Ba can get goals, Marveaux's meant to be rated reasonably highly. Obertan needs a fair amount of work but could turn out ok with first team football which he didn't get much at United. A lot of pace and has bulked up a lot. Overcomplicates things at times and mentality issues hold him back a lot. Blanc summed it up pretty much when we signed him.

"I was surprised, but it is an unexpected chance for him to play with one of the best clubs in the world.

Manchester United have been tracking him for a long time. They certainly hope to advance him, something that Bordeaux and Lorient have failed to do.

He has the potential, but he must overcome psychological and mental challenges so he can express his true value."

[TheGayTent]

I'm amazed Ba hasn't started every game.

I'm also amazed Nolan is highly thought of. He's one dimensional and pretty shit.

[kaosmark2]

I'm amazed Ba hasn't started every game.

I'm also amazed Nolan is highly thought of. He's one dimensional and pretty shit.

[pink_triangle]

It could be argued that LFC are favourite in every match they play bar Citeh and Manyoo.

Youve spoken of the next five games being a different test - LFC are favourite in every one of them bar the United game at home.

[chappiepunk]

Spurs - I dont think anybody will be making the claim they have the strongest bench in the premeirship this year!

[chappiepunk]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Stoke finish above them).

[eFestivals]

so .... are England gonna win tonight?

[Benj]

so .... are England gonna win tonight?

[thetime]

more pertinently, does anyone really care?

I didn't even know it was on, I will not be watching.

[eFestivals]

more pertinently, does anyone really care?

it looks like they don't if they're a club man without any players in the squad.

I didn't even know it was on, I will not be watching.

i've just discovered it's only on Sky .... which makes a good excuse for the pub.

[The Nal]

it looks like they don't if they're a club man without any players in the squad.

Edited September 2, 2011 by The Nal