Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

liverpool fans the same every season.

all positive how there going to be brilliant the season ahead, come september not so confident....cant wait till october....

oh c'mon ... I only saw the 2nd half of the game, and while Liverpool weren't as at 'em as they've mostly been since Kenny returned, they were still the much better team and on a different day - or not against the always-difficult Stoke - it would have been an easy win.

There's no way on earth I'd have predicted a Liverpool win at Stoke because they're always a hard team to beat - but via what happened on the field it should have been a win, and that won't be the case for every 'better' team that loses there.

I very much doubt that Liverpool will be the only team towards the top who'll come away from there without any points this season.

[thetime]

Loudest song sung at the weekend by Utd fans was about LFC.

Laughable.

[thetime]

was talking to a man utd fan at the weekend who saw duncan edwards play(yeah hes old lol) and he was saying how phil jones is the closest player he has seen to duncan edwards he can remember.

praise indeed.

[Wooderson]

most laughable thing at the weekend was the pressure getting to king kenny already...quit by the end of season no doubt.

[thetime]

Everytime Baconface makes some hungover outburst about the FA (or whoever) in future I'll make similarly twattish comment in your direction scout.

[eFestivals]

was talking to a man utd fan at the weekend who saw duncan edwards play(yeah hes old lol) and he was saying how phil jones is the closest player he has seen to duncan edwards he can remember.

praise indeed.

my missus' dad used to play footie with Duncan Edwards in Dudley, before Edwards signed for Utd.

[eFestivals]

blimey now i know not to have a bit of banter with you.

PMSL - Kenny might have sounded like he's losing it compared to his more normal post-match interviews, but he still managed to keep within what's allowed, and demonstrated that he hadn't allowed his feelings to take over his brain.

Whatever else Fergie might be good at, he's not able to do the same. Just a thought.

[ralph250]

I reckon that Stoke are a shoe-in for 6th or 7th this season. They're defo a team on the up.

I'm not entirely sure it's something that'll manage to sustain beyond this season tho unless they spend a similar amount next summer as they have this summer - most of their new signings are towards the end of their career, and either cost a lot in that context, or are likely to be on higher wages than their input on the field is likely to justify.

As for the Manchester teams - wow! It looks like they're going to be streets ahead of the rest by xmas. They didn't really click so much this weekend, but Rooney and Young are looking like they're going to be a formidable partnership, and the rest are on fire too .... and god knows how strong City are going to be once the squad becomes more settled.

The only hope for the rest of the league is that they'll fade at some point, but I can't really see it unless (unlikely, I know) Utd reverse their normal season fortunes and start strong and finish weak, and (slightly more likely) Mancini has the same bottle problems he's shown the last two season.

[ralph250]

Interesting dispatches at 8pm tonight by the sounds of things.

[eFestivals]

Think it's too early to say teams could be miles clear though. As PT has eluded to, Chelsea are still picking up results even if not playing the best

yeah, but just look at the goal difference that Utd and City have, and just 4 games into the season. The way things are going those look like they're only going to keep on growing fast, even if not at the same rate as so far.

Utd might have some tougher games coming up, but (unless they suddenly turn to shit) they'll be a more-than-decent points haul off all of those games combined.

Main thing I'm hoping for is that with our current displays is that we regain that aura where teams fear you & you've half-beaten them before kick-off.

while that'll probably happen - there's too many weak minded managers more concerned for their job than their team winning - it really shouldn't, at least not right now.

There's too much that's there for the taking if any team is properly prepared to take Utd on: shoot and they will score. De Gea is your very-weak point. While he's far from the best, Arsenal have the better goalie right now - and Utd fans should be choking on their words of the last few seasons.

... but equally last two games, the opposition have tried to have a go at us and got done for 13 goals.

thing is, they went at things the wrong way. Teams need to be bombarding your goal, not trying to work a structured attack - Arsenal, despite their heavy loss, got to show just how easy it is for a team that actually shoots at Utd's goal.

All that aside, I can't see too many getting dropped by Utd.

[Jaybles]

yeah, but just look at the goal difference that Utd and City have, and just 4 games into the season. The way things are going those look like they're only going to keep on growing fast, even if not at the same rate as so far.

Utd might have some tougher games coming up, but (unless they suddenly turn to shit) they'll be a more-than-decent points haul off all of those games combined.

[kaosmark2]

Remember Chelsea last season, similar start and similar goal difference. Im very happy with how it is going for Utd but not counting chickens yet. Form could very easily drop off over the winter

Think its harsh to say De Gea is a "very-weak point". He had a bit of a baptism of fire against city in the charity shield and west brom. But since then has got better and better. Haven't seen the full highlights from Bolton but from what i did see he was impressive.

[eFestivals]

Remember Chelsea last season, similar start and similar goal difference. Im very happy with how it is going for Utd but not counting chickens yet. Form could very easily drop off over the winter

that's been Chelsea in every recent season but this one (and they're not doing too shabby even now).

While it's unlikely that Utd will keep on going in the way they've started, I can't see them having the fragility that Chelsea have every Oct till xmas.

Think its harsh to say De Gea is a "very-weak point". He had a bit of a baptism of fire against city in the charity shield and west brom. But since then has got better and better. Haven't seen the full highlights from Bolton but from what i did see he was impressive.

oh, he's very capable of making spectacular saves, I've seen a few already.

But so is Almunia.

Think its easy to say teams need to bombard our goal. But when you are so far ahead in a game (like Arsenal) its easy to switch off a bit, and im sure Fergie had a word about the two goals Arsenal scored. That being said, the 8-2 was a bit of a one-off. Don't think you can establish a performance pattern with a game like that

I agree that those Arsenal goals would mean little if that was the only evidence - but it's the evidence of the games before that as well.

Of all the younger 'great' goalies that have come and gone over the years he's probably got the best chance of coming good (tho he could be another fergie turkey ), but right now he's there for the taking. The more shots a team makes the more chance they'll have.

[Ed209]

The more shots a team makes the more chance they'll have.

[ralph250]

I'm not overly concerned with De Gea. Whilst he's made some mistakes, there was always going to be an acclimisation period. Also:

17 - Man Utd's David De Gea has made more saves than any other goalkeeper in the Premier League this season. Worked

http://twitter.com/#!/OptaJoe/status/108573710620962816

88 - David de Gea made more saves from shots inside the penalty area than any other goalkeeper in La Liga last season. Occupied.

http://twitter.com/#!/OptaJoe/statuses/85627151138824192

[ralph250]

Think its easy to say teams need to bombard our goal. But when you are so far ahead in a game (like Arsenal) its easy to switch off a bit, and im sure Fergie had a word about the two goals Arsenal scored. That being said, the 8-2 was a bit of a one-off. Don't think you can establish a performance pattern with a game like that

[Langdale Wolf]

I always quite enjoyed Keys and Gray on MNF, but I have to say that I'm really enjoying watching Gary 'surprisingly impressive pundit' Neville this season.

And Ed Chamberlin isn't too bad either.

Very watchable, I think. And I don't just think it's because I'm used to the absolute bag of w*nk that is ITV either.

[kaosmark2]

I don't think anyone, even the ever-critical media, is saying that De Gea won't adapt or ever be good enough. But he's still learning, still adapting, and is a weak point at the moment.

For the record, I still haven't been impressed by Hart this season and the last couple of months of last season. I think Cech hasn't recovered from Chelski's bad patch last year (and is currently injured), and Szczesny, while he's been impressive by Arsenal keeper standards, still hasn't done enough to prove himself a match-winning goalie, although at least he's an improvement on Almunia who probably lost Arsenal more points than their disciplinary records. Freidel is an excellent keeper, but more from his concentration than match-winning reflex masterclass saves. Reina is the only keeper in the likely top 6 that I'd say is definitely a top keeper on current form (including end of last season). Still, De Gea is the one with the least experience in the Prem, and has looked very nervy at dealing with some of the shots and crosses so far.

[ralph250]

I don't think anyone, even the ever-critical media, is saying that De Gea won't adapt or ever be good enough. But he's still learning, still adapting, and is a weak point at the moment.

For the record, I still haven't been impressed by Hart this season and the last couple of months of last season. I think Cech hasn't recovered from Chelski's bad patch last year (and is currently injured), and Szczesny, while he's been impressive by Arsenal keeper standards, still hasn't done enough to prove himself a match-winning goalie, although at least he's an improvement on Almunia who probably lost Arsenal more points than their disciplinary records. Freidel is an excellent keeper, but more from his concentration than match-winning reflex masterclass saves. Reina is the only keeper in the likely top 6 that I'd say is definitely a top keeper on current form (including end of last season). Still, De Gea is the one with the least experience in the Prem, and has looked very nervy at dealing with some of the shots and crosses so far.

[ralph250]

Suarez!

[ralph250]

Interesting dispatches at 8pm tonight by the sounds of things.

[Benj]

Suarez!

[eFestivals]

If anything, I'd look to test him on crosses more than shots as that's where he's still adjusting.

I agree that he looks weaker on crosses than other areas, but the problem with that - and why I say 'shoot and you will score' - is that a team has to first get into the position to make those crosses, which is easier said than done against a team like Utd.

If a team waited for the opportunities to put in good crosses, they'd lose out on the chances of many more shots on goal. I reckon those many more shots against one cross would bring the better results, just as I think shooting on sight would bring better results than trying to work your team into the best scoring position before making that shot.

Regards comparing to Szczęsny. I think Szczęsny looks an excellent prospect, has a good presence about him, but 4-5 games isn't enough to say one's better than another imo.

Szczęsny has had many more than 4 or 5 games tho. That's just the number this season.

I'm not really saying he's the better goalie tho - but I would rather have him in my goal than De Gea right at this moment.

You were quick to discount Kenny's first couple games in charge due to not having long in training, but De Gea due to the u21 championships (which he with Spain won), didn't join up with the squad until 18th July. Didn't get back from the US tour until the 1st Aug, Charity Shield 7th, Start of prem 14th. As said before, new team-mates, new surroundings, new football culture to adjust to, new language, not sure about family but his girlfriend is a Spanish pop singer so has commitments that can't always be in England,

oh, I'm not thinking there's no good reasons why De Gea might be having a dodgy start, and I've taken care not to suggest that I think he'll always be as dodgy as he's looked in these first games - he's clearly a great goalie for his age (tho of course that does need considering alongside all the 'great' goalies at that age who do turn to shite, there's no absolute guarantee De Gea will come good).

But he IS having a dodgy start, and there is a vulnerability there at the moment which other teams can exploit better than the teams Utd have played so far could have exploited.

[eFestivals]

Reina is the only keeper in the likely top 6 that I'd say is definitely a top keeper on current form (including end of last season).

it was interesting seeing David James on footie focus the other day - he clearly believes that Reina is streets ahead of the other possibilities for best goalie in the Prem.

[Wooderson]

Suarez missed a sitter later on