Paul Currie cancelled by glastonbury

[Blisterpack]

4 minutes ago, Isaact said:

 

I think it's quite distasteful to posit a moral argument based on LGBTQ+ and women's rights in a country that essentially functions as an apartheid state, with 'non-citizens' who are frequently murdered, have their land stolen, and their houses destroyed.

 

But that's as far as I'll go really, clearly you don't see it as apartheid and so we probably won't ever agree.

 

What I will say is the reason that I referenced the West Bank in my last post is that Hamas don't even exist there, and yet you still see innocent Palestinians murdered, their houses destroyed, and their land stolen on literally a daily basis.

We won’t agree, you’re correct. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

It's textbook pinkwashing

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkwashing_(LGBT)

[DeanoL]

22 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I think the broader point is that Israel embraces socially liberal principles that should be valued and respected and the millions of people who benefit from that (LGBTQ+ and women) would be at significant risk if Israel ceased to exist. The non- Jihadist amongst the world’s population should at least be fighting for them surely….?

I don't disagree with that - and to be clear, a belief that Israel shouldn't exist also doesn't equate to believing it should just be handed over to Palestine and people left to fend for themselves.

 

What I was really trying to get at was those saying they might feel uncomfortable at the festival because of people being anti-Israel, and feeling threatened because of that. I do get why it would be uncomfortable, but I'd wager that no-one at Glastonbury wants you, or your friends and family, left homeless or put at risk. Even if they say stuff like they hate the current Israeli government, or think Israel shouldn't have the right to exist.

 

I do recognise those points of view are also often put forwards by those who do literally just hate all Jewish people. But you probably won't find them at Glastonbury. 

[DeanoL]

30 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

agree its calm but has the potential not to be and has the potential to be challenging for mods . the closing suggestion has come from OP so is one to be considered 

For the former I think yeah, if it's work you don't want to do then I'd just close it and wouldn't blame you for it at all!

But to the second point I've never really subscribed to the notion that the OP "owns" a thread on a discussion board - I feel they're more just a starter for discussion and things go from there.

In this case it feels very much like the OP is a friend of Paul's and was trying to generate interest in a community they expected to be broadly sympathetic, and it's turned out, as ever, to be a bit more complex than that.

[Blisterpack]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I don't disagree with that - and to be clear, a belief that Israel shouldn't exist also doesn't equate to believing it should just be handed over to Palestine and people left to fend for themselves.

 

What I was really trying to get at was those saying they might feel uncomfortable at the festival because of people being anti-Israel, and feeling threatened because of that. I do get why it would be uncomfortable, but I'd wager that no-one at Glastonbury wants you, or your friends and family, left homeless or put at risk. Even if they say stuff like they hate the current Israeli government, or think Israel shouldn't have the right to exist.

 

I do recognise those points of view are also often put forwards by those who do literally just hate all Jewish people. But you probably won't find them at Glastonbury. 

I dislike Netanyahu and his govt with a passion. I want Sunak out. I don’t want to see another Trump presidency. I can separate the state from the government with all of them. 
I also think a government in Gaza (and the West Bank) that puts the needs of its people first rather than using energy trying to reverse something that the rest of the Arab world - with the exception of Iran and its proxies - has reconciled with would help immeasurably. This is not how jihadists think though, sadly. 

Edited April 22 by Blisterpack

[Nobby's Old Boots]

41 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

agree its calm but has the potential not to be and has the potential to be challenging for mods . the closing suggestion has come from OP so is one to be considered 

Is that how it works then? Anyone can come on, post unfounded rumours as facts, then when it's challenged they can just request the thread is closed? That seems like a great precedent.. 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Is that how it works then? Anyone can come on, post unfounded rumours as facts, then when it's challenged they can just request the thread is closed? That seems like a great precedent.. 

we are discussing amongst the mod team at the moment 

[gblock]

1 minute ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Is that how it works then? Anyone can come on, post unfounded rumours as facts, then when it's challenged they can just request the thread is closed? That seems like a great precedent.. 

No it's because the thread has evolved into a separate debate, albeit a relevant one, from that which OP first brought up.

[Nobby's Old Boots]

Just now, gblock said:

No it's because the thread has evolved into a separate debate, albeit a relevant one, from that which OP first brought up.

I know, but if the thread is closed rather than deleted then it just sits here unchallenged and I don't believe it's true.

[Nuthugger]

anyway can this paul curry fella magic himself in or do acrobatics over the fence or something? thats what these sort of acts do innit??

[CaledonianGonzo]

He can ride his Luck Dragon in.

[shuttlep]

HMMM Wonder if sneaking a Palestinian flag on to Colplay's stage would get them cancelled!

[CaledonianGonzo]

There'll be plenty of them around.

[gigpusher]

9 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I dislike Netanyahu and his govt with a passion. I want Sunak out. I don’t want to see another Trump presidency. I can separate the state from the government with all of them. 
I also think a government in Gaza (and the West Bank) that puts the needs of its people first rather than using energy trying to reverse something that the rest of the Arab world - with the exception of Iran and its proxies - has reconciled with would help immeasurably. This is not how jihadists think though, sadly. 

So you can separate the actions of a government and hold extremely nuanced and complex views on a difficult subject but it seems that you don't think others can.

 

I don't think anyone in this thread has voiced any antisemitic views but it feels like support for Palestinian people alone can be interpreted that way to some people.  Most of us would just not like our governments to support a very right wing government killing lots of innocent people indiscriminately. That would be a start for me. The fight for social justice is an ongoing one. If the people of Palestine end up in another religious state that denies them freedoms that I believe people should be entitled to then I'll fight for that next. 

[Agis]

As I and others have said before this thread is about Paul Currie not getting a slot at Glastonbury. There is no evidence to suggest it is because of any political views he has so I guess this thread has run its course.

 

If anyone wants to start a thread about politics I am sure there is a place for that somewhere else.

[DeanoL]

15 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I dislike Netanyahu and his govt with a passion. I want Sunak out. I don’t want to see another Trump presidency. I can separate the state from the government with all of them. 

There'd be plenty of Americans that would feel personally upset with criticisms of Trump though, and if Rishi was actually elected maybe some Brits might find that upsetting too...

The issue is you might be able to separate the state from the government, but the person on the other end may still see that as an attack on them, because they don't see that separation as clearly. Or don't know that you're someone making that separation in the first place.

It can be tough, and it does create difficult feelings, and think plenty of young Jews outside of Israel have been feeling that for the first time ever in the past months. It's a tough and difficult thing to deal with. But I do believe it's something that does have to be dealt with. That people do have to grasp that there's a difference between the government/state, and its people. But we can often all see that in abstract when aimed at someone else, but when it's coming our way, it can feel very different.

 

Those feelings aren't invalid at all. They're real, and they exist. But they also shouldn't be used to stop people criticising the actions of a state.

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, Agis said:

As I and others have said before this thread is about Paul Currie not getting a slot at Glastonbury. There is no evidence to suggest it is because of any political views he has so I guess this thread has run its course.

 

If anyone wants to start a thread about politics I am sure there is a place for that somewhere else.

You can also just not read it? I'm always weirded out by comments like this*  - if it's run its course, why does it need to be shut down? I genuinely don't understand.

 

(*unless from the mods, who have to read it, and will have to deal with it should it get heated)

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, Agis said:

As I and others have said before this thread is about Paul Currie not getting a slot at Glastonbury. There is no evidence to suggest it is because of any political views he has so I guess this thread has run its course.

 

If anyone wants to start a thread about politics I am sure there is a place for that somewhere else.

international politics thread exists here 

 

[Blisterpack]

15 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

…. it feels like support for Palestinian people alone can be interpreted that way to some people.  

I want the best for the Palestinian people. And that’s a government that recognises the legitimacy of its neighbours, has a legitimacy of its own and provides for its people. I also think that is the order it needs to happen in. 

[Agis]

13 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

You can also just not read it? I'm always weirded out by comments like this*  - if it's run its course, why does it need to be shut down? I genuinely don't understand.

 

(*unless from the mods, who have to read it, and will have to deal with it should it get heated)

 

Don't be weirded out. My opinion is that its run its course because the original post was about Paul Currie being not asked back to Glastonbury because of the political views he has. I am not definitely sure if he has or not but it looks as though its nothing to do with that. Getting into a wider discussion about the political situation he holds an opinion on in this thread is (in my opinion) as useful as asking about what Fresh & Black Decathlon Tent to buy.

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

1 hour ago, Blisterpack said:

I think the broader point is that Israel embraces socially liberal principles that should be valued and respected and the millions of people who benefit from that (LGBTQ+ and women) would be at significant risk if Israel ceased to exist. The non- Jihadist amongst the world’s population should at least be fighting for them surely….?

 

Genocide is not really socially liberal.

[Paul ™]

21 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

international politics thread exists here 

 

Which is where this should continue, it's gone way past the original topic and Glastonbury

[Blisterpack]

Just now, HotChipWillBreakYourLegs said:

 

Genocide is not really socially liberal.

True. And this isn’t genocide. 

[Stu H]

I have seen Paul quite a lot. Multiple times in Edinburgh, 4-5 times at Glastonbury. I have followed this unfolding event.

My joy of Glastonbury has been to be able to express all manner of views, even ones I disagree with.
It's turned into a toxic subject.

 

I wish Paul all the best, I admire his comedy and consider myself a fan.

[DeanoL]

5 minutes ago, Agis said:

 

Don't be weirded out. My opinion is that its run its course because the original post was about Paul Currie being not asked back to Glastonbury because of the political views he has. I am not definitely sure if he has or not but it looks as though its nothing to do with that. Getting into a wider discussion about the political situation he holds an opinion on in this thread is (in my opinion) as useful as asking about what Fresh & Black Decathlon Tent to buy.

It moved on to that because of someone expressing concern about how they might feel about certain things at the festival, and most of my posts I've tried to make in the context of that.

I've actually found many of the posts made here quite interesting and informative, and am sorry you've not got anything from them. But I still don't really get why you feel the need to point that out. There's plenty of threads on here of no interest to me, and I just don't read them.