news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

or the efestivals politics thread.

Twitter is the easiest and clearest way of sharing news and opinions.

Me and you Stevie provide the good folks here with a lot of news and opinion so you are right this thread is a good place to get up to date info.

We provide a public service. 

[Guest]

12 years of Tory rule. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Me and you Stevie provide the good folks here with a lot of news and opinion so you are right this thread is a good place to get up to date info.

We provide a public service. 

Others of us are capable of following the news without your help 

[pink_triangle]

5 hours ago, clarkete said:

He was specifically at fault in many cases according to those directly involved. 

On dodgy procurement 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56125462

Ppe and ventilators 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/dominic-cummings-boris-johnson-matt-hancock-health-secretary-dominic-raab-b941036.html?amp

The forty million quid for the pal he had a photo of

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/01/matt-hancock-says-labours-covid-contract-claims-rubbish

Let alone imposing regulations that prevented folks visiting dying relates whilst he gave a job to an old pal, then had an affair with her breaching those regs, during the working day and in a building we pay for. First thing they did when it was leaked? Conduct a witch hunt and try to force the scum to reveal their source - for once I was glad they won. 

 

 

 

Those regulations were not just put through by him, they were supported by many cross party. The health secretary serves the PM and can be removed at any time if he/she chooses. I guess one question to ask is if Hunt, Javid or another had been health secretary would we have tackled things in a significantly different way and ended up with significantly different outcomes. My guess is probably not.

This is not me defending Hancock, but more I think people may have exaggerated his role and influence. If people want to watch him in a jungle fine, if people don't then protest by not watching. Those who think they are punishing him by making him do trials (which in general he is unphased about) are raising his profile and not harming him.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Neil said:

Others of us are capable of following the news without your help 

I'm only joking.

[steviewevie]

35 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Me and you Stevie provide the good folks here with a lot of news and opinion so you are right this thread is a good place to get up to date info.

We provide a public service. 

Yes, not sure what they'd do without us.

[steviewevie]

They'd all be voting Tory or supporting Corbyn or some other horridness.

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

They'd all be voting Tory or supporting Corbyn or some other horridness.

yeah clearly we all have cardboard cut outs of starmer and pray in his direction every night after reading this thread 

[squirrelarmy]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

yeah clearly we all have cardboard cut outs of starmer and pray in his direction every night after reading this thread 

Hasn’t @Ozanne sent you yours yet?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

They'd all be voting Tory or supporting Corbyn or some other horridness.

No one would know any Labour policies 😉 

[Guest]

Just now, squirrelarmy said:

Hasn’t @Ozanne sent you yours yet?

Santa Starmer is on it's way to you.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, squirrelarmy said:

Hasn’t @Ozanne sent you yours yet?

think he probably keeps the spares in his wardrobe 

[hodgey123]

3 hours ago, cellar said:

Wondering if we will see some changes to CGT on Thursday - increasing the percentage paid, or reducing the tax free allowance (or both) would probably lead to a lot of people selling off assets before April next year in order to make use of current rates which would generate some nice income for the government. 

Also maybe finally some decent changes to how pension tax relief is applied, but I won't hold my breath on that one, too politically sensitive. 

Would be great and long overdue, but think any changes will be minimal. I heard rumblings of halving the annual exemption amount but I would go further and remove the preferential tax rates for gains and dividends altogether and bring it into line with the income tax brackets. I would also bring dividends and gains within the scope of NIC. Not only would it generate an awful lot of additional revenue, it would greatly simplify the tax system. Will never happen under a Tory government as it would directly impact their voter base.

[steviewevie]

 

[mattiloy]

Meanwhile, the Labour right have been organising to deselect widely liked Ian Byrne, MP of the year, backed by Burnham and Steve Rotheram along with basically every single union.

Now they’re going as far as harrassing him as he campaigns.

Earlier complaints around the legitimacy around the process for the initial trigger ballot have been ignored by Labour HQ.

Trumpian stuff from Labour.

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Meanwhile, the Labour right have been organising to deselect widely liked Ian Byrne, MP of the year, backed by Burnham and Steve Rotheram along with basically every single union.

Now they’re going as far as harrassing him as he campaigns.

Earlier complaints around the legitimacy around the process for the initial trigger ballot have been ignored by Labour HQ.

Trumpian stuff from Labour.

Yah

 

[steviewevie]

also Michael Crick has been following all this...

https://pod.link/1496246490/episode/960ea097158c4ae9b9cf5cc01b90861e

[pink_triangle]

12 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Meanwhile, the Labour right have been organising to deselect widely liked Ian Byrne, MP of the year, backed by Burnham and Steve Rotheram along with basically every single union.

Now they’re going as far as harrassing him as he campaigns.

Earlier complaints around the legitimacy around the process for the initial trigger ballot have been ignored by Labour HQ.

Trumpian stuff from Labour.

Out of interest do you know it's true just because he said it is? Have Burnham and Rotherham confirmed the story? Have the local politicians had their say?

That's not me saying it's not true (how would I know) but I am wary of just assuming something is true because it was on social media.

[Guest]

Corbyn made it easier to deselect MPs and now it's come back to bite his own allies. A political masterclass by Corbyn.

[clarkete]

5 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Those regulations were not just put through by him, they were supported by many cross party. The health secretary serves the PM and can be removed at any time if he/she chooses. I guess one question to ask is if Hunt, Javid or another had been health secretary would we have tackled things in a significantly different way and ended up with significantly different outcomes. My guess is probably not.

This is not me defending Hancock, but more I think people may have exaggerated his role and influence. If people want to watch him in a jungle fine, if people don't then protest by not watching. Those who think they are punishing him by making him do trials (which in general he is unphased about) are raising his profile and not harming him.

Did you look at any of those links? 

They're all things where he was explicitly cited as being involved - not management by committee or some other wishy washy bollocks. 

[pink_triangle]

35 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Did you look at any of those links? 

They're all things where he was explicitly cited as being involved - not management by committee or some other wishy washy bollocks. 

Of course things like procurement and ordering PPE are management by committee. Do you really think because Hancock is health secretary he has the expertise to do this. There will be a whole host of civil servants, advisors etc involved in these types of things. Of course he is the figurehead, but to think he was doing everything in isolation is silly.

In terms of procurement I have no doubt friends of him and other Tory MPs benefited. This to me is more  Torys being torys than any judgement on job effectiveness. My point stands that I think whoever was the Tory health secretary would have probably made very similar judgements leading to very similar outcomes. I support labour but have no doubt a labour health secretary would have probably made mistakes as well. Another key point is that PM Boris could have removed him at any time if not happy with the job he was doing.

[steviewevie]

Looks like UK and French govs have come to some migration agreement which will mean more patrol boats in english channel. Maybe that would have an impact and help Sunak (and Braverman).

Also, Rishi off to meet G20 this week. I imagine he's better at all this stuff than both Johnson or Truss, and May.

[Neil]

11 hours ago, hodgey123 said:

Would be great and long overdue, but think any changes will be minimal. I heard rumblings of halving the annual exemption amount but I would go further and remove the preferential tax rates for gains and dividends altogether and bring it into line with the income tax brackets. I would also bring dividends and gains within the scope of NIC. Not only would it generate an awful lot of additional revenue, it would greatly simplify the tax system. Will never happen under a Tory government as it would directly impact their voter base.

ant see it being changed too much, a lot of CGT stuff is from pension investments, and if they make it too hard that money will stay locked away from benefitting the normal economy.

[steviewevie]

Stop farting about and put up income tax to pay for NHS and social care.

[cellar]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

ant see it being changed too much, a lot of CGT stuff is from pension investments, and if they make it too hard that money will stay locked away from benefitting the normal economy.

The majority of pension investments are exempt from CGT if we're talking about actual pension wrappers (ie. Not just people buying assets as a "nest egg" for retirement - but the only reason they would be doing that is if they've used up their pension allowances). 

The biggest problem I have with current pension system is the tax relief, as it makes it cheaper for high earners to pay into a pension each year, since the government adds your rate of income tax to any contribution you make. 

But yeah I don't see them messing with pensions too much - CGT seems like really low hanging fruit though. But maybe too sensible (and too much in favour of lower earners) for a Tory government to implement.