news & politics:discussion

[efcfanwirral]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The size of the crater outside the hospital was incredibly big - whatever caused that explosion was incredibly powerful bomb.  The Ukraines don't have anything that big.

Nobody's suggesting it was done by Ukraine, more that there may be a wider story around it than "they deliberately targeted and killed children". That its then put to us in such strong terms gets a bigger emotional response and support for war. 

Probably incompetence - missing the actual target by a long way sounds like the most plausible...

Edited March 10, 2022 by efcfanwirral

[squirrelarmy]

11 hours ago, blutarsky said:

 

More fucking ashamed to be British every day. 

A “surge” is more than 3 people and some crisps. Like you say, we should be doing more. Unfortunately the “hostile environment” Tory home office doesn’t want to do more. 

 

11 hours ago, Ozanne said:

It’s classic behaviour from the Tories, they don’t really want people coming over here so will put as difficult a proposition together as they can but just enough of one so they can claim they are offering people help. It’s disgraceful, we should be doing so much more. 

I saw an interesting fact yesterday that is probably still true.
 

More MPs are under investigation for attending parties at Downing Street than Ukrainian refugees have been admitted into the country. 

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

You need to give your head a fucking wobble mate

Nah just need to bow out of all this. I lack the empathy required to contribute I think! 

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Nobody's suggesting it was done by Ukraine, more that there may be a wider story around it than "they deliberately targeted and killed children". That its then put to us in such strong terms gets a bigger emotional response and support for war. 

Probably incompetence - missing the actual target by a long way sounds like the most plausible...

This is the thing if it ever ends up in court...proving intent is the tricky bit. We'll likely never know.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

The government dragged kicking and screaming into changing course. It’s still not perfect, what if they don’t have Wifi, or electricity or a smart phone anymore?

[Ozanne]

Also this improved scheme is only for Ukrainians that have family in the U.K. so will do nothing for the majority of refugees. 

[steviewevie]

They won't let them come here because they don't want to come here.

[Ozanne]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

They won't let them come here because they don't want to come here.

That’s exactly it. 

[steviewevie]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/10/sanction-oligarchs-britain-foreign-finance-trade-deficit-russia-abramovich

[steviewevie]

 

[Ozanne]

 

 

[steviewevie]

So I'm not sure if there's a better alternative...but so far half helping and supporting Ukraine has enabled them to keep fighting, slowing but not stopping the Russian advance so prolonging the war and leading to Russia to become more and more drastic and ultimately more civilan casualties; and the sanctions are hurting ordinary Russian people but not necessarily Putin?

Surely that convoy outside Kyiv was there for the taking and if Poland had got those planes to them then Ukraine could maybe have bombed the shit out of it?

Anyway...I reckon most likely outcome at moment is Ukraine forced to negotiate away the eastern half of their country to Russian control...but I don't think it ends there in long term, can't see how this ever gets resolved completely.

[Ozanne]

This has all played out how Johnson wanted it too, I knew he would get away with it as he always does. 

[steviewevie]

10 hours ago, Ozanne said:

 

 

not sure Macron and Biden are seeing much of a rally...and Scholz hasn't been there very long. Surely this helps Macron in up coming election though because of far right opponents previous love of Putin as some sort of white nationalist superhero sticking it to the woke liberal west and their silly democracies.

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Biden isn't going to get a second term the way things are going...

too early to say before the mid-term elections later this year.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[fred quimby]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

Biden isn't going to get a second term the way things are going...

Think he will be dead ? 😉

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

How convenient. 

[steviewevie]

4 hours ago, Ozanne said:

How convenient. 

to be honest I don't think it will be that bad for govt anyway...yes they fucked up with some parts of their response, but so did lots of other countries, and some other stuff they did ok or well at. Even if before election I don't think it will damage them that much. Partygate was the thing that could have end Johnson but events have pushed that down in most people's priorities...but there will still likely be something else that ends Johnson, he is still a weak PM having to please a bunch of MPs who don't like the idea of raising taxes and net zero etc etc.

[Ozanne]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

to be honest I don't think it will be that bad for govt anyway...yes they fucked up with some parts of their response, but so did lots of other countries, and some other stuff they did ok or well at. Even if before election I don't think it will damage them that much. Partygate was the thing that could have end Johnson but events have pushed that down in most people's priorities...but there will still likely be something else that ends Johnson, he is still a weak PM having to please a bunch of MPs who don't like the idea of raising taxes and net zero etc etc.

Are you kidding? Their response was shambolic to say the least and led to many people dying that didn’t have to die. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Are you kidding? Their response was shambolic to say the least and led to many people dying that didn’t have to die. 

they were late to react yes,but the lockdowns were pretty strict and the support provided to many people and businesses with furlough etc during these lockdowns were arguably pretty good. In the end it's very damaging economically/socially to force people to stay home, so these were difficult decisions to make. Also, the govt were listening to advice, and many behavioural scientists etc were saying the public wouldn't stand for it, but obviously in the end a large proportion of the public were very conformative. I just think we'll look like many other western democracies in how they reacted, and they can say many lessons will be learned for the next time. Not sure what those lessons are...should we have closed schools?...I would argue no, but many would disagree...