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Ozanne Grand Master

Ozanne

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they were late to react yes,but the lockdowns were pretty strict and the support provided to many people and businesses with furlough etc during these lockdowns were arguably pretty good. In the end it's very damaging economically/socially to force people to stay home, so these were difficult decisions to make. Also, the govt were listening to advice, and many behavioural scientists etc were saying the public wouldn't stand for it, but obviously in the end a large proportion of the public were very conformative. I just think we'll look like many other western democracies in how they reacted, and they can say many lessons will be learned for the next time. Not sure what those lessons are...should we have closed schools?...I would argue no, but many would disagree...

I’m sorry man but I disagree fundamentally.

The Tories made so many mistakes which should be investigated thoroughly in the inquiry. The mistakes have been ones nearly entirely of their own making and even date back before the start of the pandemic.

The government had plenty of the warnings in the build up with China and Italy yet still didn’t act. They had their own Operation Cygnus from a couple of years before which highlighted the many issues a respiratory virus would bring and still didn’t act. If they had have put measures in place as per the report instead of continuing to cut public services we would've been on a good footing from the start.

At the start of the pandemic Johnson didn’t take any of it seriously, refusing to put measures in until it was much too late and giving awful public health messages too.

In the summer PHE colleagues wrote to the PM to request the government use the summer lull to prepare for the winter. The government instead of doing that played around with breaking international law and the PM went on holiday again. Cases started to rise as predicted in the Autumn which caused SAGE and the LOTO to call for a short lockdown, the government still didn’t act. They brought in a tier system which didn’t work and which was highlighted to them before the fact, they then brought in a lockdown weeks later on Halloween which wasn’t strong enough and long enough. Calls for the government to cancel Christmas from medical experts went out and still the government didn’t act, instead bringing in a new tiering system which saw nearly all regions be moved to the top tier. As a result we saw record level cases on a daily basis, hospitals filling up and Drs coming out saying the NHS is at breaking point calling for a national lockdown along with other experts. Schools were safe then 24 hours later were shut as well.

We saw it too many times through the pandemic and yes whilst plenty of other countries are wrestling with these dilemmas the UK government have repeatedly acted too slowly and too poorly. We needed a government that when they got advise from their advisors and experts warning them of a very really incoming issue to listen and act, quickly and decisively. I believe that nearly anything other government would have done those things and as such we would have been in a better position than we ended up in.

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Don't post on here often, but read it every day. Can't sit by and watch @Ozanne getting picked on for doing little other than make a polite 'point of order' request without my saying something. F

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Man I'm furious. He's not remotely apologetic. Look at his face while Starmer is talking. I've tried to avoid taking this too personally but my mum died in hospital last summer and I wasn't allow

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’m sorry man but I disagree fundamentally.

The Tories made so many mistakes which should be investigated thoroughly in the inquiry. The mistakes have been ones nearly entirely of their own making and even date back before the start of the pandemic.

The government had plenty of the warnings in the build up with China and Italy yet still didn’t act. They had their own Operation Cygnus from a couple of years before which highlighted the many issues a respiratory virus would bring and still didn’t act. If they had have put measures in place as per the report instead of continuing to cut public services we would've been on a good footing from the start.

At the start of the pandemic Johnson didn’t take any of it seriously, refusing to put measures in until it was much too late and giving awful public health messages too.

In the summer PHE colleagues wrote to the PM to request the government use the summer lull to prepare for the winter. The government instead of doing that played around with breaking international law and the PM went on holiday again. Cases started to rise as predicted in the Autumn which caused SAGE and the LOTO to call for a short lockdown, the government still didn’t act. They brought in a tier system which didn’t work and which was highlighted to them before the fact, they then brought in a lockdown weeks later on Halloween which wasn’t strong enough and long enough. Calls for the government to cancel Christmas from medical experts went out and still the government didn’t act, instead bringing in a new tiering system which saw nearly all regions be moved to the top tier. As a result we saw record level cases on a daily basis, hospitals filling up and Drs coming out saying the NHS is at breaking point calling for a national lockdown along with other experts. Schools were safe then 24 hours later were shut as well.

We saw it too many times through the pandemic and yes whilst plenty of other countries are wrestling with these dilemmas the UK government have repeatedly acted too slowly and too poorly. We needed a government that when they got advise from their advisors and experts warning them of a very really incoming issue to listen and act, quickly and decisively. I believe that nearly anything other government would have done those things and as such we would have been in a better position than we ended up in.

well when you put it like that...

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Ozanne Grand Master

Ozanne

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1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Looks like Russian tactics is now to cut off supplies to Ukrainian cities and then bomb ths shit out of them...and eventually Ukrainian govt will have to surrender. Some of those Russian missiles are falling pretty close to Polish border now.

And once Ukraine is taken, then what? Lithuania?

It’s grim isn’t it, so many casualties 😔

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charlierc Grand Master

charlierc

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Looks like Russian tactics is now to cut off supplies to Ukrainian cities and then bomb ths shit out of them...and eventually Ukrainian govt will have to surrender. Some of those Russian missiles are falling pretty close to Polish border now.

And once Ukraine is taken, then what? Lithuania?

It's difficult. You'd think as Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland are all EU and NATO members that Putin wouldn't attack them given they're already in the club and the US is already putting military assets there, and yet people also went out there way to say Putin wouldn't be dumb enough to launch an assault on Ukraine. So... who knows.

It is absolutely getting worse out there and I have no fucking clue what even is a good solution to this.

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Ozanne Grand Master

Ozanne

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40 minutes ago, charlierc said:

It's difficult. You'd think as Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland are all EU and NATO members that Putin wouldn't attack them given they're already in the club and the US is already putting military assets there, and yet people also went out there way to say Putin wouldn't be dumb enough to launch an assault on Ukraine. So... who knows.

It is absolutely getting worse out there and I have no fucking clue what even is a good solution to this.

I’m not saying this is my stance and it’s really not the way to deal with bullies but wouldn’t a surrender by the Ukrainians be one of the least worst options now?

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’m not saying this is my stance and it’s really not the way to deal with bullies but wouldn’t a surrender by the Ukrainians be one of the least worst options now?

in terms of human lives...yes, I think so..certainly in the short term.

I can't see them surrendering yet though...they might just keep trying to hold out until the economic stuff gets too much for Russia and something gives....and even if they did surrender, what then? It's not as if Ukrainians are going to happily let Russia install a pro-kremlin government, certainly not now. This may drag on and on...hopefully something can get negotiated that both sides can live with eventually...

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