news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

I think Barry Fish is a c**t if that helps.

[Crazyfool01]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think Barry Fish is a c**t if that helps.

I think you've made this point quite a  few times now and its not gaining much from a discussion point of view 

[steviewevie]

20 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

I think you've made this point quite a  few times now and its not gaining much from a discussion point of view 

Oh, ok, he's a c**t and they should pay nurses more.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

I think a forum needs proper balanced and fair moderation or no moderation at all.  There was plenty of gloating about me being banned without a word said.  So can I presume we are now going to draw a line in the sand and everyone is going to be moderated equally and fairly from this point onwards.  Genuine question.  If Ozanne has been suspended then I guess so.  Fair play.  No gloating just saying I welcome balanced moderation.

People haven't seen what I've DM'd other people. 90% of warnings and moderation I've done has been private. 

I've been moderating the site for about 6 years, and the vast amount of it is dealing with spammers. The next most has been imitation accounts trolling. I've been very reluctant to give any warnings to established users and accounts because it's generally very bad for a site, particularly stopping debates or discussions from getting lively.

However, it's got to the point where multiple regular users seem to be actively trying to rile each other up and pick fights. I posted things in here asking for it to be less personal as another site user, and then as a mod, and until it improves, I'm going to be giving people time-out suspensions for trolling.

Edited December 16, 2022 by kaosmark2

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

I totally agree.  We used to have great discussions. back in the day. In the general news thread as well.

Let people air a view point without being called a name or a tory would be very much welcomed.  Im game.

I said about a month ago that repeatedly calling someone a Tory would be considered a personal attack. That still stands.

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

sexy authoritarian.

why was he suspended big bruv?

Because he was trolling. People called him out for sarcastically misrepresenting other people's view points, and he kept doing it. He had a private warning before, and he's now got a 1 week suspension.

[kaosmark2]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

What's the stance on calling someone a c**t constantly?

Stevie is on moderated content for the next week. 

You dish it out yourself, and Neil and I have called you a c**t plenty of times. But he needs to contribute other things.

[kaosmark2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64002936

I know there was an article in the Torygraph with a sensationalist headline, but can anyone tell me what Streeting originally said that has got the left riled up?

As "the NHS needs reform" isn't in itself a ridiculous statement, but I haven't seen direct quotes of anything meaningful.

[tigger123]

29 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Stevie is on moderated content for the next week. 

You dish it out yourself, and Neil and I have called you a c**t plenty of times. But he needs to contribute other things.

Glad to hear it. I don’t consistently  agree with any one side in this thread but one thing I have noticed is it becoming a clique for Stevie and Ozanne and anything that can be done to stop said clique is a good, healthy development for this thread. The reason I say thread rather than forum is neither ever really post anywhere else except for in this thread which again leads to its cliquey nature

[steviewevie]

41 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Stevie is on moderated content for the next week. 

You dish it out yourself, and Neil and I have called you a c**t plenty of times. But he needs to contribute other things.

Moderated content? Blimey. Starmer would love this.

[Neil]

22 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

currently, the NHS works properly for the very few.  

not true, i spend a lot of time with other big nhs service users, and i reckon all would say it generally works well for them.

[midnight]

3 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

moderation has recently restarted to help the site and Neil , its not totally new as it has had other moderators in the past but the aim from me personally is to be fair and to help the site and the thread be open to all ... and thats why I prefer it without the personal stuff ... I was looking back at some of the earlier posts and there were many more people posting in this thread and hopefully we can get back to that rather than the loop we are currently on . 

Yes. Thank you.

As some who reads this thread occasionally (and used to be more active on this forum), the constant needling, bickering and name calling is just unbelievably boring, and the temptation to join is practically zero.  

[kaosmark2]

13 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Wes Streeting really is a breath of fresh air I think.  The NHS is not the envey of anyone as far as I can tell.  He is calling it out and that is the only hope of actually fixing it rather than managing a steady decline.

The NHS, free at the point of use, isn't unique, it isn't special.  Many countries operate free health care and the all the league tables show we are constantly out performed by other nations.  At this point I would even prefer the USA system, because although some people do get left behind, their system works for the vast majority, while in the UK, currently, the NHS works properly for the very few.  

Free at point of use is fairly universal across the West, it's mainly the USA that's worse. With our aging population, and funding stagnant in real terms, alongside massive cuts to things that tie directly to demand on the NHS (social care in particular comes to mind).

I'd detest the US system, itemised hospital bills and the poor just get abandoned. You also have issues of doctors having links to pharmaceutical companies and conflicts of interest like that. Leaving people behind on basic healthcare is horrendous. I also think the NHS works properly for most, with the exception of waiting times.

The thing about the NHS, is that it needs more funding, and that's only going to get worse. And that has to come from either higher taxes on everyone, or from a shift in system. I'd advocate for higher taxes, but without some sort of change, it's going to collapse in 15-20 years.

[midnight]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

not true, i spend a lot of time with other big nhs service users, and i reckon all would say it generally works well for them.

It seems to be very uneven. From where I sit, it's dealing with the GP level that can be really difficult - once I'd been referred to the specialists everything was pretty good, apart from the long waiting times.

[clarkete]

2 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Its interesting here the lies spouted in the UK about the USA system and the lies spouted in the USA about the UK system.  Vested interests and a lack of understanding / knowledge.

There is lots of schemes to bring health care to the poor in the USA.  Very few in reality go without.  Its a huge misconception.

My daughter needed treatment in the August in the USA.  It was exceptional (no doubt normal to the average american).  We waited less than 5 mis to see the doctor and was fully treated and patched up and out of the door in an hour.  UK it would of easily been at least 3 hours and no doubt 7 hours.  I did walk out with a £1600 bill ( from memory) but the health insurance took care of that.

Your anecdotal experience doesn't support your claim that it's "no doubt normal", as that doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

"The report is the seventh international comparison of countries' health systems by the Commonwealth Fund since 2004, and the United States has ranked last in every edition"

"Among contributors to the poor showing by the U.S. is that half (50%) of lower-income adults and 27% of higher-income adults say costs keep them from getting needed health care"

"In the United Kingdom, only 12% with lower incomes and 7% with higher incomes said costs kept them from care."

"Several factors contributed to the U.S. ranking at the bottom of the outcomes category. Among them are that the United States has the highest infant mortality rate (5.7 deaths per 1,000 live births) and lowest life expectancy (living on average 23.1 years after age 60) compared with the other countries surveyed. The U.S. rate of preventable mortality (177 deaths per 100,000 population) is more than double that of the best-performing country, Switzerland"

https://www.webmd.com/health-insurance/news/20210804/us-health-system-ranks-last-among-11-high-income-countries

I'll tell you my own anecdotal experience.  I met someone not far from the Golden Gate Bridge a few years ago.  She was celebrating the fact that she'd just finished paying for the cancer treatment for her late partner...after fifteen years.  Having lost relatives myself to cancer and finding it difficult to deal with on an emotional level I couldn't imagine having to deal with financial issues as well - it's a shit system and too many people fall through their net.

[Neil]

My poor old mm is currently waiting for an.ambulance after a fall, just to get checked over. Last time. A few weeks ago she waited 24hours for one to arrive. Luckily one of my brothers is in the country so can go and help and help out. I hate not being able to help. I really enjoyed looking after my mum for a week a couple of years ago but sadly left her house in an ambulance myself. 

[Crazyfool01]

4 hours ago, Neil said:

My poor old mm is currently waiting for an.ambulance after a fall, just to get checked over. Last time. A few weeks ago she waited 24hours for one to arrive. Luckily one of my brothers is in the country so can go and help and help out. I hate not being able to help. I really enjoyed looking after my mum for a week a couple of years ago but sadly left her house in an ambulance myself. 

Best of luck Neil hope you get a speedy response . 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

15 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

I wonder if the GMB have considered striking and getting a fair deal for supermarket workers ? £10 ph ? Is that reasonable I guess it’s unskilled but not without its own demands 

Isnt the Living Wage going up to 10.41? Thats about the only decent thing the Tories have brought in.

[Paul ™]

5 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Isnt the Living Wage going up to 10.41? Thats about the only decent thing the Tories have brought in.

£10.42 for over 23's from April, add on the 12.07% Holiday pay and you're looking at £11.68 

[Neil]

govt still not given me my free money towards heating, but they have just given me my ten quid xmas bonus.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

govt still not given me my free money towards heating, but they have just given me my ten quid xmas bonus.

I have been getting 66 a month and a voucher for 150. I also got 2 weeks worth of Cold Weather payments. However there is a fault with my prepayment meter and we havent topped up for nearly 4 months so free electric.

However we have no heating for a year as the landlord wont fix the boiler or the electric curcuit as we are been evicted in 3 weeks.

I donr know about my vouchers as using them will not really benefit me.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

I have been getting 66 a month and a voucher for 150. I also got 2 weeks worth of Cold Weather payments. However there is a fault with my prepayment meter and we havent topped up for nearly 4 months so free electric.

However we have no heating for a year as the landlord wont fix the boiler or the electric curcuit as we are been evicted in 3 weeks.

I donr know about my vouchers as using them will not really benefit me.

im meant to get the money automatically as i get pip.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

16 minutes ago, Neil said:

im meant to get the money automatically as i get pip.

I get my heating help from Bulb as a voucher that I cash in at tgr PO. AS far as I am aware if you are on DD they will take it off yiur bill

[squirrelarmy]

55 minutes ago, Neil said:

govt still not given me my free money towards heating, but they have just given me my ten quid xmas bonus.

Just checked my bank and got my tenner as well. 
 

I’m not quite sure what it’s supposed to cover. 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

13 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Just checked my bank and got my tenner as well. 
 

I’m not quite sure what it’s supposed to cover. 

The tenner was brought in the 70s for vulnerable people over Christmas. Then a tenner was worth a good chunk of benefit but it has never been raised with inflation