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mattiloy Mentor

mattiloy

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Neil said:

corbyn was a cult!


Corbyn was just the guy in a long line of candidates from the socialist campaign group to get put forward for election at a time when the appetite for radical progressive policies was high. Corbynism was all about the policies because they were great. It could just as easily have been McDonaldism or any other one of them ism.

Starmerism asks you to ignore the policies and basically everything he says because its f**king sh*t and just believe that he’ll take you all to the promised land if you only believe.

Which is the cult?

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Neil Grand Master

Neil

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:


Corbyn was just the guy in a long line of candidates from the socialist campaign group to get put forward for election at a time when the appetite for radical progressive policies was high. Corbynism was all about the policies because they were great. It could just as easily have been McDonaldism or any other one of them ism.

Starmerism asks you to ignore the policies and basically everything he says because its f**king sh*t and just believe that he’ll take you all to the promised land if you only believe.

Which is the cult?

Corbyn came with baggage that made him unelectable and unsuitable  as leader. The cult is the likes of you still unable to admit that.

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lost Mentor

lost

Posted
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Can't stand Boris but reading some of the twitter comments from Corbynista's regarding what's going on in Israel makes me realise what a bullet we dodged not electing Corbyn.

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cellar Proficient

cellar

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, doogie said:

You'd struggle to find a Jewish person who doesn't support Israel's right to exist (and therefore its right to defend itself when under attack).

Given Jewish people are about the only ethnic minority that's actually over-represented in terms of attendees at places like Glastonbury in comparison to its population size, I think you'll find that quite a few people that use this site are pro-Israel.

That doesn't mean they all support the Israeli government in everything they do.  That would be like saying you can't be pro-Britain if you don't support the Tories.

I guess pro-Israel was a poor choice of phrasing, so I apologise for that.

I think that the atrocities committed by Israel since, what, the 70s? Deserve much wider condemnation from the international community than they have received. I think (hope?) one day we will look back and wish that we had done more to stop it. I think Western countries, particularly America, are complicit in enabling these atrocities.

To me this is a militarily dominant country exerting its power in an awful way, and it shocks and saddens me that it's allowed to continue. I still don't fully understand why it is allowed, but assume it must be to do with money and power.

I don't care for the religious aspect - I know that ultimately is a part of it, but it has no bearing on my thinking (a privilege, I know).

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cellar Proficient

cellar

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, doogie said:

You'd struggle to find a Jewish person who doesn't support Israel's right to exist (and therefore its right to defend itself when under attack).

Also, just to clarify this here - you're suggesting that Israels right to exist is somehow under threat by recent events?

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

Posted
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31 minutes ago, cellar said:

I guess pro-Israel was a poor choice of phrasing, so I apologise for that.

I think that the atrocities committed by Israel since, what, the 70s? Deserve much wider condemnation from the international community than they have received. I think (hope?) one day we will look back and wish that we had done more to stop it. I think Western countries, particularly America, are complicit in enabling these atrocities.

To me this is a militarily dominant country exerting its power in an awful way, and it shocks and saddens me that it's allowed to continue. I still don't fully understand why it is allowed, but assume it must be to do with money and power.

I don't care for the religious aspect - I know that ultimately is a part of it, but it has no bearing on my thinking (a privilege, I know).

Still doesn't excuse some of the sh*t Hamas has done.

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lost Mentor

lost

Posted
Posted (edited)

The sad thing is loads of people who didn't or didn't really care after seeing the videos of the peace festival with loads of young women being targeted to be carted off and raped probably do now.

Israel has a "good will" window to do what ever they want.

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cellar Proficient

cellar

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Who said I did? Is it one or the other?

I don't know really. If a cornered cat scratches the person cornering it, do you start having a go at the cat?

I just think it's a strange response to what I said, to go "Yeah but Hamas are sh*t as well." The narrative of shifting blame onto Palestine doesn't sit well at all with me (as you've probably gathered).

But I know you like to play devils advocate, so maybe it's just that. 

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

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Posted
7 minutes ago, cellar said:

I don't know really. If a cornered cat scratches the person cornering it, do you start having a go at the cat?

I just think it's a strange response to what I said, to go "Yeah but Hamas are sh*t as well." The narrative of shifting blame onto Palestine doesn't sit well at all with me (as you've probably gathered).

But I know you like to play devils advocate, so maybe it's just that. 

and you came back with me supporting apartheid...but I know you can be a bit of a prick so maybe it's just that.

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Neil Grand Master

Neil

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

he was also more pally with the right wing press that wanted their Brexit dream 

A brexit dream that the public had already said they wanted.

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

Posted
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11 minutes ago, Neil said:

A brexit dream that the public had already said they wanted.

easy to look back at Bojo and Jezza and say wtf...but both were selected by their parties for valid reasons. Labour lost elections with Brown, then Miliband, so then only fair that maybe the left should have a go, and a few rule changes helped with that...and Labour actually did a lot better than expected in 2017 which everyone seems to forget, but obviously 2019 was a disaster. Who know if brexit hadn't happened what might have been, Labour were certainly offering a radical change back then, but Corbyn would have had to deal with covid, and then Ukraine/Russia...so who knows.

And maybe Johnson was the only one who could ever have got brexit done and it had to be him, and who knows how it might have worked out if covid hadn't happened, he certainly wasn't against spending. In many ways I would rather he was there than Sunak, but would maybe make it harder for Labour if he was.

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