Football 2020/2021

[thetime]

18 minutes ago, eastynh said:

I have no problem with peaceful protests. As mentioned, I have been part of one, to remove an owner/chairman. Yesterday was not peaceful and had nothing to do with the ESL. The GMP statement says that "MANY of those present were not intending to exercise their right to peaceful protest. Flares were let off and bottles thrown at officers"

The match was abandoned for safety reasons.

That does not suggest a minority and a peaceful protest. Neither do the pictures I posted, nor the numerous videos posted online. It suggests a mob intent on causing damage and all you have done is condone it.

If it was City fans behaving in such a manner, not a chance would I support or condone it.

Where have I condoned the violence? GMP were not innocent in the use of unneeded violence. 

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, eastynh said:

I have no problem with peaceful protests. 

You have no problem with owners who have a problem with peaceful protests.

[eastynh]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

You have no problem with owners who have a problem with peaceful protests.

We are not discussing City's owners and what happens in Abu Dhabi. You would not have a problem with City's owners either, if they had not stopped the teams you support and follow from winning.

[TheGayTent]

43 minutes ago, eastynh said:

I have no problem with peaceful protests. As mentioned, I have been part of one, to remove an owner/chairman. Yesterday was not peaceful and had nothing to do with the ESL. The GMP statement says that "MANY of those present were not intending to exercise their right to peaceful protest. Flares were let off and bottles thrown at officers"

The match was abandoned for safety reasons.

That does not suggest a minority and a peaceful protest. Neither do the pictures I posted, nor the numerous videos posted online. It suggests a mob intent on causing damage and all you have done is condone it.

If it was City fans behaving in such a manner, not a chance would I support or condone it.

Don’t pretend that City fans are angelic, or that the Swales out campaign was completely peaceful. 
 

Were you happy with City supporters vandalising his business premises? Or turning up at his mother’s nursing home? 
 

As I said, point scoring against fellow supporters at this time is as worthwhile as a 1 legged arse kicking competition. 

[eFestivals]

19 minutes ago, eastynh said:

We are not discussing City's owners and what happens in Abu Dhabi. You would not have a problem with City's owners either, if they had not stopped the teams you support and follow from winning.

I have a problem with despotic rulers wherever they rule around the world.football only only comes into this via an extra way to have a pop at another club.

[eastynh]

37 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Don’t pretend that City fans are angelic, or that the Swales out campaign was completely peaceful. 
 

Were you happy with City supporters vandalising his business premises? Or turning up at his mother’s nursing home? 
 

As I said, point scoring against fellow supporters at this time is as worthwhile as a 1 legged arse kicking competition. 

No one turned up at his mother's nursing home, that's a load of bullshit. 

I was at the Swales out protests, you weren't. They were absolutely nothing like what happened at Old Trafford yesterday.

Edited May 3, 2021 by eastynh

[TheGayTent]

13 minutes ago, eastynh said:

No one turned up at his mother's nursing home, that's a load of bullshit. 

I was at the Swales out protests, you weren't. They were absolutely nothing like what happened at Old Trafford yesterday.

I was at some of the Bond Scheme protests. They were peaceful. 

I don’t pretend all West Ham fans are whiter than white though. 

I’ve no love for the red half of Manchester. I don’t like west London much either.

But the ESL proposals are bigger than that. Condemning a section of the Man Utd support for their actions yesterday is missing the bigger point. 

 

[eastynh]

30 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

I was at some of the Bond Scheme protests. They were peaceful. 

I don’t pretend all West Ham fans are whiter than white though. 

I’ve no love for the red half of Manchester. I don’t like west London much either.

But the ESL proposals are bigger than that. Condemning a section of the Man Utd support for their actions yesterday is missing the bigger point. 

 

Yesterday's protests had absolutely nothing to do with the ESL. If they were about the ESL and they were peaceful, then they would have had my full support.

Yesterday's protest were about blaming the Glazers for them not being the best team anymore.

Edited May 3, 2021 by eastynh

[TheGayTent]

6 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Yesterday's protests had absolutely nothing to do with the ESL. If they were about the ESL and they were peaceful, then they would have had my full support.

Yesterday's protest were about blaming the Glazers for them not being the best team anymore.

That’s your view and you’re entitled to it.

You’re clearly wrong though.

Man Utd have been shit (relative to the Fergie years) for a long time. 

Even if you ignore everything that was said (or written on makeshift flags etc), the timing of yesterday’s protest had everything to do with the owners decisions around the ESL and nothing to do with Man Utd not being the best team anymore. 

[thetime]

10 minutes ago, eastynh said:

 

Yesterday's protest were about blaming the Glazers for them not being the best team anymore.

You really have a very simplistic way at looking at the protests.

[eastynh]

Just now, TheGayTent said:

That’s your view and you’re entitled to it.

You’re clearly wrong though.

Man Utd have been shit (relative to the Fergie years) for a long time. 

Even if you ignore everything that was said (or written on makeshift flags etc), the timing of yesterday’s protest had everything to do with the owners decisions around the ESL and nothing to do with Man Utd not being the best team anymore. 

You show me one flag against the ESL from yesterday.

[thetime]

2 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

The timing of yesterday’s protest had everything to do with the owners decisions around the ESL and nothing to do with Man Utd not being the best team anymore. 

I would say the esl lit the fuse for organising the protest, it got people going who wouldn't normally go to protests.

 

 

[eastynh]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

I would say the esl lit the fuse for organising the protest, it got people going who wouldn't normally go to protests.

 

 

So we agree yesterday's protests had nothing to do with the ESL and were all about removing the Glazers?

United fans seem to think the Glazers have stolen money from them. They have not stolen a penny, they are entitled to every penny they have taken. Do I agree with it? No, not at all. I think the leveraged purchase of any football club is a disgrace and government should introduce legislation to prohibit it. I also think what the Glazers have done is morally repugnant and would have no issue with peaceful protests against them.

But let's get one thing straight. If not for the emergence of City, United would probably have won lots more over the past decade. They would have also have considerably out spent every other team on the planet. If that was the case, none of them would have been demonstrating yesterday and no one would be arsed about the Glazers taking a dividend, which they are legally entitled to.

Yesterday was no peaceful uprising of fans who were protesting for the good of the game. It was selfish and self entitled bell ends, who were intent on causing trouble, to get what they want. 

What the fuck were they singing anti City songs for at an anti Glazer protest? Why were they kicking off with police? Why on earth were they fighting amongst themselves and what on earth did getting the match postponed actually achieve?

Edited May 3, 2021 by eastynh

[eFestivals]

5 hours ago, eastynh said:

We are not discussing City's owners and what happens in Abu Dhabi. You would not have a problem with City's owners either, if they had not stopped the teams you support and follow from winning.

When did citeh stop aldershot from winning. They don't need stopping for that to happen not winning is their default. 

[eastynh]

Protesting about the ESL, sing songs about City. That makes sense 🤷 

https://twitter.com/Gezz_MUFC/status/1388842452199649282?s=20

[eastynh]

This comes from a rag off red cafe and deserved to be quoted. A bit of sense for once.

 

A rare voice of reason, I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the obvious flaws in the current situation and people's frenzy. I see the protesting fanbase is generally split in two camps:
a) A benevolent billionaire to take over the Glazers and make us the highest spending club in the world. This implies either the new owner would pump their own money into the club, beyond the price of acquiring it, which I imagine fans won't be happy with a leveraged buy-out, like the Glazers did, or they don't take dividends, which is the other huge gripe with the current owners. It just begs the question, why would any billionaire spend £4-5bn of their money in buying a huge asset that won't make them any money unless they decide to sell it? Some would say "for the brand power and recognition" and I would answer that if a person is able to spend £4bn on a football club, they have enough power. The only other legitimate reason I could think of is to legitimise their business and persona. Like a Saudi crown prince, Chinese tycoon or some ex-USSR fossil fuels magnate.
b) The 50%+1 ownership model where the club would be "owned" by its supporters. I think people haven't really thought about this one at all. First of all, in order for the ownership to change from Glazers to XXXXX amount of supporters, the latter need to come up with the money to buy the 50%+1 share off the Glazer family and partners. I really, really, really doubt people could come up with that kind of money. Let's make a mental math exercise:

• Let's say 50% of the club are currently worth £2bn
• Let's assume willing supporters organise and are willing to attempt buying off that 50% share and the total amount of those is 100,000 (this is being very, very, very optimistic)
• 2,000,000,000 divided by 100,000 = £20,000 per supporter

I don't know about other people but I believe saying that a 100k supporters would come out with £20k each to basically donate so that "the people" could own the club is.....naive, to put it nicely.

But ok, let's assume even that actually happens. What then? The club is 50%+1 owned by the supporters. That means club management need to be elected on mandates. So, we enter the world of politics, populism, promises and consequences beyond the end of the current mandate. I urge people to read more on the reasons why Real Madrid and Barcelona are in dire financial state right now. It has a lot to do with the key words I underlined in the previous sentence.

Then some point to the German ownership model and more specifically to Bayern Munchen. Again, I suggest people do some reading on the topic and also understand that such a model exists in specific circumstances where it is the norm with very few exceptions (Bayern themselves can be counted as exception, RB Leipzig are another one) and to even consider it possible in the UK, it would mean ALL clubs must transition to a 50%+1 ownership model. I don't want to say that's impossible but it's damn close to it.

So, what does that leave us with? Violent, angry and loud protesters who are such a small fraction of the club's fanbase that if they weren't violent nobody would even notice them. Other are Social Media heroes who post angry messages with hashtags and support to ideas they generally do not understand.

I believe the owners, the staff, the players and the PL will all want this to end very soon because it is, at best, an unnecessary nuissance, or at worst, an attempt to set a very dangerous precedent where private property ownership is challenged by rioting consumers and is the football's equivalent of the Capitol Hill insurrection. What's next? Overthrow the Coca-Cola Company management because Coke consumers do not like their advertising model?

What do I think is going to happen? The club will invite several protester representatives to "constructive dialogue talks" which will take place for a while and then they will create a new structure within the club for something like "supporter stakeholder supervision" which will be sold as a reasonable compromise as the owners have listened to fans and have taken actions to ensure their voice continues to be heard and is part of the club going forward.

----------------------

One small thing I forgot to add:

The reason why Neville, Carragher and the whole pleiad of Sky and BT pundits are supporting the protests now and are emphasizing on the Super League as "the stroke that broke the camel's back" is not because they are defenders of the game. It is because the Super League model would render their jobs worthless if the Premier League and Champions League are no longer the top competitions. They understand that very well and their employers have certainly made it abundantly clear of the existential threat there.

They (and many other people) are quoting arguments that are at best wishful thinking, and in reality just naivety. Even on here, people have been dreaming for a competition a lot like the Super League for decades and are too blinded by their collective mob anger now to really consider the facts. Sure, a reserved seat at the table doesn't sound right. But will it affect competitiveness? You could ask the NBA/NHL/NFL stars that question. Or maybe someone thinks those are not the top leagues in the world when it comes to basketball/hockey/American football?

But I digress, this is not about the Super League. I don't particularly care about it, I've always been a fan of the Premier League first and foremost and would be happy if the Super League never comes to fruition. But it is about the protests and the Glazers (who, by the way, also own the current NFL Super Bowl winners..). And the media who are being incredibly irresponsible in defending violent and criminal behavior. Some of the things Neville, Carragher, Keane and Richards said yesterday in the studio should be reviewed and threated as inciting an angry mob, in my opinion. And the worst part is they're doing it out of self-interest, not any love for the game. But people are too angry to see it."
 

 

[thetime]

Great race for 3rd and 4th.

Leicester to play

Newcastle (H)

United (A)

Chelsea (A) 

Spurs (H)

Chelsea to play

City (A)

Arsenal (H)

Leicester (H)

Villa (A)

West Ham to play

Everton (h)

Brighton (a)

West brom (a)

Southampton (h)

I'm going for 

Leicester 70 points

West ham 70 points

Chelsea 68 points

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by thetime

[jyoung]

Four wins from four is optimistic for West Ham, I'd say. That's not a dig or anything. I just think it's going to be tougher than it looks on paper.

[thetime]

11 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Four wins from four is optimistic for West Ham, I'd say. That's not a dig or anything. I just think it's going to be tougher than it looks on paper.

Of course, they have the most winnable fixtures on paper. Leicester and Chelsea have far the toughest. You would Imagine if west ham can beat Everton it really is up for grabs for them. 

[jyoung]

15 minutes ago, thetime said:

Of course, they have the most winnable fixtures on paper. Leicester and Chelsea have far the toughest. You would Imagine if west ham can beat Everton it really is up for grabs for them. 

Yeah and I guess when you catch momentum at the right time the results can be devastating. I'm sure Moyes will be driving them hard for this final push. Certainly makes it very interesting either way. I don't think Chelsea will get max points from their final four so as you say it really is all to play for.

[squirrelarmy]

23 hours ago, thetime said:

Mate you are a bit of a prick. Coked up thugs on the rampage, you really are a complete imbecile.

In the majority it was a peaceful protest, you will always get the minority causing trouble. That's what it was the minority. 

Reminds me of a typical Courteeners gig

[thetime]

16 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Reminds me of a typical Courteeners gig

Good times

[Hugh Jass]

At least the Euros start next month.

[Hugh Jass]

Because I'm board at work I was looking at the fixtures for the Euros and trying to work out if there's actually greater benefit to finishing second in England's group than coming top.

2nd Round - France or Germany

QF - Spain

Semi - Italy or Holland

If we come second:

Second Round - Poland or Sweden

QF - France or Germany

Semi - Belgium

If we could get past France or Germany in the second round then we'd have to think we could all the way.

 

[TheGayTent]

If Antonio stays fit, plays 360 mins, and we get no new injuries to key players, I’m confident of a Europa spot. Realistically it would take a monumental fuck up by Chelsea and Leicester for a top 4 spot. 
 

I would be delighted to finish above Tottenham.