Cigerette filters- the number one single use plastic pollutant

[DeanoL]

3 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

I wouldn't try because it looks like it can't be measured. As I said before, if it was a 'big' thing, then the UK and other countries they would have banned it by now already. I'm not sure what part of that you are missing?

So if it can't be measured, how do you know if it's a big thing or not? It could be the cause of far more deaths than we actually think in that case right? 

You've said you've never seen any evidence it causes accidents, and people provided that evidence. Then you said that evidence isn't scientifically sound, then you said it's impossible to provide any such evidence because you can't measure it. So essentially you're saying it's impossible to change your mind on it. 

And cigs were causing cancer for years, as was passive smoking, and there was a shit-ton of evidence for that, and it look literally decades to get it banned in public places still. So the idea that it's clearly okay because it's not banned is nonsense.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

22 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

You've said you've never seen any evidence it causes accidents, and people provided that evidence. Then you said that evidence isn't scientifically sound, then you said it's impossible to provide any such evidence because you can't measure it. So essentially you're saying it's impossible to change your mind on it. 

I said that I hadn't seen any evidence of it in all my years in the newspapers etc. Are you saying that that is not the case, ans that I don't have access to my own memory?

I said that the evidence wasn't scientifically sound because it isn't. How can a police officers 'judgement' be sound scientific practice? Please do not ignore that question.

I did NOT say that you can't measure it. I said that it would APPEAR that it can't be measured. Maybe it can, somehow, but I certainly don't know how.

What is this bollocks about me changing my mind on it? Given that you have so far taken it up on yourself to challenge me on this and not got anywhere doing so, wouldn't it be the courteous thing for you to change your mind?

29 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

And cigs were causing cancer for years, as was passive smoking, and there was a shit-ton of evidence for that, and it look literally decades to get it banned in public places still. So the idea that it's clearly okay because it's not banned is nonsense.

I have never said that smoking or passive smoking weren't potentially cancer causing. I do not believe that smoking in your own car to be a public space.

[stuie]

26 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

So the idea that it's clearly okay because it's not banned is nonsense.

So is the idea that it would not be banned already if there was any evidence to suggest it was responsible for road accidents or deaths.

Road safety, design, speed limits, traffic calming, drink and drug testing are all well thought out and legislated in this country, it's not like they've just overlooked a massive cause of accidents.

I don't smoke and drive but I can't see it's a causing accidents on any scale, otherwise it would have been dealt with.

 

 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

27 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

Road safety, design, speed limits, traffic calming, drink and drug testing are all well thought out and legislated in this country, it's not like they've just overlooked a massive cause of accidents.

This, in a nut shell.

[Gilb]

As a (ex) smoker of 25 years I have enough evidence and experience to state that holding a very light lit cigarette between 2 fingers does not distract from driving in any way at all.

You don't look at it, talk to it, juggle with it.
If you do drop it, as can happen, it doesn't instantly create a fireball so no-one panics (unless it falls in an eye) so you just calmly pull over when possible to clear up the mess.

Having just changes from an old Vauxhall Frontera (analogue, 2 buttons) that I'd been driving for 5 years to a new modern SUV (very digital), the modern car is so overwhelmed with distractions easily on a par mobile phones.

[Cool Glasto Guy]

Ill be honest, i always throw my cigarettes on the floor, as its too much hassle to stub them out and find a bin. Its also a deeply ingrained habit with smokers. 

Festivals are no exception. When you are in the middle of a big crowd and your fag is finished, the very last thing you are thinking about is finding a bin to chuck your dog end. I remember a few years ago people were handing out those silly pouches to put your spent fag ends in, i never saw anyone use them, and havent seen them since. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

23 minutes ago, Gilb said:

As a (ex) smoker of 25 years I have enough evidence and experience to state that holding a very light lit cigarette between 2 fingers does not distract from driving in any way at all.

You don't look at it, talk to it, juggle with it.
If you do drop it, as can happen, it doesn't instantly create a fireball so no-one panics (unless it falls in an eye) so you just calmly pull over when possible to clear up the mess.

Having just changes from an old Vauxhall Frontera (analogue, 2 buttons) that I'd been driving for 5 years to a new modern SUV (very digital), the modern car is so overwhelmed with distractions easily on a par mobile phones.

Very sensible post. Unfortunately I've ran out of up votes.

[NerdsNatterings]

12 minutes ago, Cool Glasto Guy said:

Ill be honest, i always throw my cigarettes on the floor, as its too much hassle to stub them out and find a bin. Its also a deeply ingrained habit with smokers. 

Festivals are no exception. When you are in the middle of a big crowd and your fag is finished, the very last thing you are thinking about is finding a bin to chuck your dog end. I remember a few years ago people were handing out those silly pouches to put your spent fag ends in, i never saw anyone use them, and havent seen them since. 

That's a lot of words when you could've just said that you're a massive tool

[Cool Glasto Guy]

1 minute ago, NerdsNatterings said:

That's a lot of words when you could've just said that you're a massive tool

Just being honest. I take it you are not a smoker? If you were, id love to see you put every butt of yours in the bin. You wouldnt! 

[NerdsNatterings]

Just now, Cool Glasto Guy said:

Just being honest. I take it you are not a smoker? If you were, id love to see you put every butt of yours in the bin. You wouldnt! 

No. I'm not a smoker. Being honest doesn't change the fact that's its a shitty thing to do. 

[stuie]

51 minutes ago, Cool Glasto Guy said:

Just being honest. I take it you are not a smoker? If you were, id love to see you put every butt of yours in the bin. You wouldnt! 

I smoke at festivals and I don't drop any fag buts.

Why should someone else have to pick up things that I've dropped?

[Cool Glasto Guy]

20 minutes ago, stuie said:

I smoke at festivals and I don't drop any fag buts.

Why should someone else have to pick up things that I've dropped?

People are more than happy to volunteer at festivals to do this without payment. Its part of the cycle of festivals. A lot of students from University of Sussex and Manchester wouldn't be able to go to Glastonbury were it not the litter picker roles on offer. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

31 minutes ago, stuie said:

I smoke at festivals and I don't drop any fag buts.

Why should someone else have to pick up things that I've dropped?

That's the same with me. I'll even put fag butts in to my jeans pockets rather than flick them on the floor. Flicking them on the floor just isn't something that I could do. 

[NerdsNatterings]

Why do something easy myself when I can throw stuff on the floor like a moron? 

[stuie]

4 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

That's the same with me. I'll even put fag butts in to my jeans pockets rather than flick them on the floor. Flicking them on the floor just isn't something that I could do. 

Yeah, I've usually got a bum bag on so if I'm nowhere near a bin it goes in a pocket on that until I am.

 

[Cool Glasto Guy]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah, I've usually got a bum bag on so if I'm nowhere near a bin it goes in a pocket on that until I am.

 

It you put it in your pocket it makes it stink. Like when you have to chip one when the bus comes if you have only just sparked it up and dont wanna waste it. 

[Quark]

You are jimbarkanoodle and I claim my ten pounds.

[Cool Glasto Guy]

14 minutes ago, Quark said:

You are jimbarkanoodle and I claim my ten pounds.

Eh? 

[DeanoL]

3 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

I have never said that smoking or passive smoking weren't potentially cancer causing. I do not believe that smoking in your own car to be a public space.

But it didn't magically start causing cancer 12 years ago did it? When we banned it in public places? It had been doing so long before then. And we didn't ban it. 

Quote

I said that the evidence wasn't scientifically sound because it isn't. How can a police officers 'judgement' be sound scientific practice? Please do not ignore that question.

It's always going to based on someone's judgement though. The argument for it being a police officer's is that currently, if a police officer judges you to be distracted by smoking, they can pull you over and charge you anyway. That's the law. So as a motorist, that smokes while driving, you're already implicitly trusting that judgement to be sound. Well that, or just risking it.

I'll be honest I never expected to ever have a discussion with you of all people where your core argument is "it's the law and the law must have it right". Somehow I imagine if the debate were on if cannabis causes any harm you wouldn't be saying it absolutely must do, otherwise the government wouldn't have banned it!

[kalifire]

3 hours ago, Cool Glasto Guy said:

Ill be honest, i always throw my cigarettes on the floor, as its too much hassle to stub them out and find a bin. Its also a deeply ingrained habit with smokers. 

Festivals are no exception. When you are in the middle of a big crowd and your fag is finished, the very last thing you are thinking about is finding a bin to chuck your dog end. I remember a few years ago people were handing out those silly pouches to put your spent fag ends in, i never saw anyone use them, and havent seen them since. 

Welcome, troll! Enjoy your short stay.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But it didn't magically start causing cancer 12 years ago did it? When we banned it in public places? It had been doing so long before then. And we didn't ban it. 

I haven't made any statements on whether smoking should be banned or not, so really not sure why you are bringing this up in response to my posts?

 

9 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

It's always going to based on someone's judgement though. The argument for it being a police officer's is that currently, if a police officer judges you to be distracted by smoking, they can pull you over and charge you anyway. That's the law. So as a motorist, that smokes while driving, you're already implicitly trusting that judgement to be sound. Well that, or just risking it.

That is indeed the case, that a police officer can pull you up and charge you for reckless driving if they think that your smoking in the car is doing that. I've read about that being the case in the past. However, I don't read about it actually happening when I interact with news forms of all sorts. I'm sure you could probably find a few isolated incidents, but that's what they'll be - isolated incidents. 

I notice that you have completely ignored stuie's post and it's contents. Any particular reason for that?

16 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 Somehow I imagine if the debate were on if cannabis causes any harm you wouldn't be saying it absolutely must do, otherwise the government wouldn't have banned it!

Now you are just 'projecting' without any 'data' to back it up. In scientific circles that's often called prejudice. Personally, I couldn't give a shit whether cannabis is legal or not, as neither case will stop me from buying it.  

 

 

I'm off on holiday for a few days, so will not be able to respond to discussion on this further for a few days.

[fred quimby]

3 hours ago, Cool Glasto Guy said:

Ill be honest, i always throw my cigarettes on the floor, as its too much hassle to stub them out and find a bin. Its also a deeply ingrained habit with smokers. 

Festivals are no exception. When you are in the middle of a big crowd and your fag is finished, the very last thing you are thinking about is finding a bin to chuck your dog end. I remember a few years ago people were handing out those silly pouches to put your spent fag ends in, i never saw anyone use them, and havent seen them since. 

It has been mentioned on the first page

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Ashtray-Black-White-Pocket/dp/B0042J7FFS/ref=sr_1_3?crid=22BXMRSXKV5RB&keywords=cigarette+butt+disposal&qid=1582736440&sprefix=cigarrette+but%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-3

But I assume you are just on the wind up or very thick

[priest17]

This thread got me a correct answer on the chase so cheers gang

[GoonerRob]

On 2/27/2020 at 1:10 PM, Old_Johno said:

This is a terrible argument, it’s not the same as drugs which have an effect. Smoking does absolutely nothing, loads of smokers quit when the smoking ban came in because they couldn’t be arsed to go outside. Even alcohol prohibition saw reduced rates of drinking of 40% at worst and 75% at its best. 

Im not even talking about banning smoking, just filters which do nothing apart from produce plastic waste.  

 

 

So by your own argument, the alcohol market went underground ( a reduction of 40-75% is still significant numbers of people ignoring the law)... which is what i said.

Loads of smokers may have quit, but many wont, and will buy cigarettes on the black market where there is no quality control. It would create a lucrative criminal market and product would be pretty easy to source for criminals since they'll still be legally manufactured all over the world, unlike illegal drugs. 

What 'effect' your particular drug of choice has is irrelevant as smoking is physically addictive, it doesn't do 'nothing'.

Prohibition does not work, full stop.

 

[Old_Johno]

On 3/7/2020 at 10:06 AM, GoonerRob said:

So by your own argument, the alcohol market went underground ( a reduction of 40-75% is still significant numbers of people ignoring the law)... which is what i said.

Loads of smokers may have quit, but many wont, and will buy cigarettes on the black market where there is no quality control. It would create a lucrative criminal market and product would be pretty easy to source for criminals since they'll still be legally manufactured all over the world, unlike illegal drugs. 

What 'effect' your particular drug of choice has is irrelevant as smoking is physically addictive, it doesn't do 'nothing'.

Prohibition does not work, full stop.

 

Your argument is the same as saying some people still steal so we may as well legalise it, as people will still do it regardless of the law. 

People are also pretty damn lazy and can’t be bothered to seek out an illegal supply,

anyway a reduction of 50% of smokers would be a pretty huge success.