Don't vote Tory

[The Red Telephone]

52 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

In which case the libdems didn't lie about uni fees. They always made clear coalition requires compromise, and the benefit is you get some of what you want but not all.

It might have seemed a bad deal at the time, but as we're seeing the tories without constraints of coalition are far worse.

Having said all of that - and not because I was voting for them (I wasn't) - I'm really really fucked off with them about the compromise they made over a vote on PR to have one on AV instead. Given their campaigning for at least 40 years, that one is far more unforgivable than the uni fees thing. They should have sacrificed everything else for that want.

Absolutely this. With the propsed boundary changes and the virtual wipeout in Scorland, it's going to be ridiculously difficult for Labour to govern the UK again under FPTP...why they aren't proposing PR is beyond me. Then again, a lot of what Labour isn't doing is beyond me.

[arcade fireman]

2 minutes ago, The Red Telephone said:

Absolutely this. With the propsed boundary changes and the virtual wipeout in Scorland, it's going to be ridiculously difficult for Labour to govern the UK again under FPTP...why they aren't proposing PR is beyond me. Then again, a lot of what Labour isn't doing is beyond me.

Scotland will either be an independent country this time in ten years or the SNP's vote will have collapsed.

Can't see any way they won't have a referendum, and can't see any way the SNP can maintain this level of support if they lose the referendum. They're already losing a fair amount of ground to the Tories. 

And an SNP wipeout would open things up if Labour become more successful in other parts of the country again. 

[The Red Telephone]

1 minute ago, arcade fireman said:

Scotland will either be an independent country this time in ten years or the SNP's vote will have collapsed.

Can't see any way they won't have a referendum, and can't see any way the SNP can maintain this level of support if they lose the referendum. They're already losing a fair amount of ground to the Tories. 

And an SNP wipeout would open things up if Labour become more successful in other parts of the country again. 

That's a big if 

 

[arcade fireman]

7 minutes ago, The Red Telephone said:

That's a big if 

 

True. But if Labour elect a credible leader then I think the road back will begin. Big "if" again, but I think this election will be the shock some people need to realise what a catastrophic mistake the last two years have been.

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, The Red Telephone said:

Absolutely this. With the propsed boundary changes and the virtual wipeout in Scorland, it's going to be ridiculously difficult for Labour to govern the UK again under FPTP...why they aren't proposing PR is beyond me. Then again, a lot of what Labour isn't doing is beyond me.

the boundary changes will make a difference, but mostly when Labour has been the party in power the seats from Scotland haven't been required to put them in power.

So it's probably not as dire as you're thinking.

11 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

Scotland will either be an independent country this time in ten years or the SNP's vote will have collapsed.

Can't see any way they won't have a referendum, and can't see any way the SNP can maintain this level of support if they lose the referendum. They're already losing a fair amount of ground to the Tories. 

And an SNP wipeout would open things up if Labour become more successful in other parts of the country again. 

i've read an awful awful lot about Scotland, and I don't think it's going indy anytime soon (tho it's close enough that it might happen). My reading it things is that indy still needs something extra to everything going on currently to give it victory - not because the idea of indy isn't popular enough, but because denial of maths isn't as popular as it needs to be.

After all, if the UK punching itself in the face with brexit is fucking stupid, then chopping your legs off is not a better thing.

[The Red Telephone]

20 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

True. But if Labour elect a credible leader then I think the road back will begin. Big "if" again, but I think this election will be the shock some people need to realise what a catastrophic mistake the last two years have been.

It might not be as bad as some are predicting if the " traditional" Labour voters who have sided with UKIP recently return. But it ain't gonna be with Corbyn as leader.

And this is from someone who voted for him in the first leadership election 

[reflekting]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'm guessing that many of those shouting the loudest right now about how May wants 'strong govt' are the same ones who complained about govt in the spirit of compromise.

 

I didn't have a huge problem with the Libs in the coalition, it is very evident that they put a stop on a large portion of right wing nonsense the Tories are trying to enact now. The biggest mistake they really made wasn't fighting for an appropriate representative voting system, the AV is a pretty shoddy way to decide elections, when really they needed to push for a referendum on PR.

[waterfalls212434]

Yougov maybe trying to give the government some ideas for the future here with questions from this current poll.....actually kind of creepy esp the second one, why would you even ask that? who is asking if that would be acceptable exactly? the tories that run the company perhaps?



And what about this one? testing the waters of how a potential `fascist` dictatorship would go down? what the fuck is that about?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-mOIsgXoAEZNFK.jpg 

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[Ommadawn]

On 28/04/2017 at 2:55 PM, squirrelarmy said:

There's a growing generation of people voting now who didn't experience Tory rule under Thatcher/Major. They didn't experience the strikes and pit closures and the big recession of the 90's. These are where a large proportion of their votes will be coming from.

Cast your mind back a little further and you'll find much the same under the Jim Callaghan's government I'm afraid.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Yougov maybe trying to give the government some ideas for the future here with questions from this current poll.....actually kind of creepy esp the second one, why would you even ask that? who is asking if that would be acceptable exactly? the tories that run the company perhaps?



And what about this one? testing the waters of how a potential `fascist` dictatorship would go down? what the fuck is that about?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-mOIsgXoAEZNFK.jpg 

 

did you notice Jezza dismiss parliament's role last week to give his own overruling-parliament diktat? It's not just the tories who do it.

Standing up for democracy is something where no one should get a free pass.

I'm as concerned about the partisanship that's going on as I am the tories. There's no better way from doing all the same things.

[Mr.Tease]

Christ, Teresa May is horrific in interviews! 

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, Mr.Tease said:

Christ, Teresa May is horrific

Let me stop you there.

[squirrelarmy]

11 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

Cast your mind back a little further and you'll find much the same under the Jim Callaghan's government I'm afraid.

Before my time, I was a child of Thatcher.

[arcade fireman]

17 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Yougov maybe trying to give the government some ideas for the future here with questions from this current poll.....actually kind of creepy esp the second one, why would you even ask that? who is asking if that would be acceptable exactly? the tories that run the company perhaps?



And what about this one? testing the waters of how a potential `fascist` dictatorship would go down? what the fuck is that about?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-mOIsgXoAEZNFK.jpg 

 

Do you have any more reliable sources for this than a random twitter image?

[thefatherofgeorge]

I don't vote Tory but I am a c a n t, is this ok? I like being a c a n t, but I can be nice sometimes. Honest x 

[squirrelarmy]

Looks like Lib Dems are playing the legalise weed card to get themselves some seats. Will it be enough to get back their previous level of power though?

[Chewie]

12 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Looks like Lib Dems are playing the legalise weed card to get themselves some seats. Will it be enough to get back their previous level of power though?

They've played that card before and it didn't help

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Chewie said:

They've played that card before and it didn't help

Not the full-on licenced-and-legal thing.

In the last 5-ish years there's been a few places (including some US states) started doing it, with no noticeable bad consequences, while the extra tax income is welcomed (plus any side consequences, such as less other-crime by separating weed from the world of crime).

[Mr.Tease]

50 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Looks like Lib Dems are playing the legalise weed card to get themselves some seats. Will it be enough to get back their previous level of power though?

We need libdems to do well this election, so they need something to boost them in the polls, doubt this is it, but it's daft it's taken this long for one minor party to actually push for this. 

[the beadle]

Please make sure you register to vote and then go and vote for a party which will stop the NHS sell off (healthcare in this country is being bought up, lock, stock and barrel by American "providers" who will then sell you your hospital bed and any other service you may ever need), someone who will re-nationalise the railways thereby making it easier to buy a cheap ticket to Castle Cary, someone who will look after your gran when she's cold, someone who'll feed your kids at school (when you have them). So get out, register and vote Labour like most of your grandparents did, God knows what happened to your parents but don't let it happen to you.

[snorton82]

43 minutes ago, the beadle said:

Please make sure you register to vote and then go and vote for a party which will stop the NHS sell off (healthcare in this country is being bought up, lock, stock and barrel by American "providers" who will then sell you your hospital bed and any other service you may ever need), someone who will re-nationalise the railways thereby making it easier to buy a cheap ticket to Castle Cary, someone who will look after your gran when she's cold, someone who'll feed your kids at school (when you have them). So get out, register and vote Labour like most of your grandparents did, God knows what happened to your parents but don't let it happen to you.

I may not vote Tory as I don't agree with a couple of things, but I certainly won't vote Labour ever again....it could well be Lib Dems for me

[stuartbert two hats]

4 minutes ago, snorton82 said:

I may not vote Tory as I don't agree with a couple of things, but I certainly won't vote Labour ever again....it could well be Lib Dems for me

Why not?

[Ollie9917]

45 minutes ago, snorton82 said:

I may not vote Tory as I don't agree with a couple of things, but I certainly won't vote Labour ever again....it could well be Lib Dems for me

tactical2017.com just for this one swallow your pride, Labour are improving. 

 

On a SIDE note http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/theresa-may-internet-conservatives-government-a7744176.html what the heck !!!

Are we living in 1984?

[Ommadawn]

1 hour ago, the beadle said:

Please make sure you register to vote and then go and vote for a party which will stop the NHS sell off (healthcare in this country is being bought up, lock, stock and barrel by American "providers" who will then sell you your hospital bed and any other service you may ever need), someone who will re-nationalise the railways thereby making it easier to buy a cheap ticket to Castle Cary, someone who will look after your gran when she's cold, someone who'll feed your kids at school (when you have them). So get out, register and vote Labour like most of your grandparents did, God knows what happened to your parents but don't let it happen to you.

You're too young to remember the railways when they were last nationalised aren't you.

[phillyfaddle]

6 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

You're too young to remember the railways when they were last nationalised aren't you.

Yes, I remember the "good old days" of British Rail. However, that would still be infinitely preferable to the current situation. Us Brits have the highest fares in Europe by far. 75% of UK rail is either foreign state-owned or state-backed, so the money we spend ends up subsidising the public services of Germany, France, Holland and now China, rather than being re-invested in improving our own transport infrastructure. That, my friend, is bonkers.