Football 16-17

[eFestivals]

46 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

No doubt, but I would argue there are lower league keepers who also make that same save.

tho it would also be fair to say that most goalies would probably make that save - if they were having one of their better days.

They can be analysed to the nth degree but it was a crackin' shot and a crackin' save. I think woody nails it when he says the goalie doesn't get any blame if it goes in.

[The Nal]

10 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Neville can (rightly) judge this as having gotten under LFC's skin. Its a supreme irony that his managerial career turned out as it did given the bullhorn he wields at Sky.

I doubt Neville is finished with management. Funny as it was, Valencia are a basket case to be fair. They've only won 6 in 25 games or something since they sacked him and are on the 3rd manager since then too.

Carra said the same about the keeper so its not just Red Nev.

[mjsell]

34 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Yeah just backing his player really. Rightly so. Didn't say anything about Carra though.

He did mention Carra. Just not in relation to Karius.

He said that ex players will always be more critical of those that play for teams they disliked (eg Neville's on Liverpool and Carra on United)

[Comfy Bean]

On the ex-player turned pundit point,  what's the view on Chris Sutton who seems to be getting plenty of TV gigs ?

For me he's trying way too hard to be controversial and seems to have a habit of making it really personal about certain refs.

Not been impressed personally. More pantomime villain than pundit. Don't find him interesting at all.

Not long switched to BT. Pretty impressed with their footy set up. Score is obviously a sky soccer Saturday rip off without the suits but I quite like it plus the goals programme on champs league nights is good value if there isn't a particular game that grabs my attention. That bloke that used to do the Italian footy back in the day is a decent anchorman.

[TheGayTent]

There's plenty worse than Sutton. 

I too enjoy the BT's goals Champions League programme and James Richardson anchoring 

[kaosmark2]

On 12/11/2016 at 11:14 AM, pink_triangle said:

Can I check, is John Stones really a great centre back? It seems we are in an era where if a defender can play the ball, then they are considered a great defender. To me he is a player who has a reputation built on hype and not performance. Am I missing something?

I've never heard him described as a great CB, only one with great "potential", but for £40m I'd have expected better performances.

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

There's plenty worse than Sutton. 

I can't believe Glen Hoddle gets pundit gigs, my 81 year old mum could make more intelligent comments about football than he manages.

[TheGayTent]

24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I can't believe Glen Hoddle gets pundit gigs, my 81 year old mum could make more intelligent comments about football than he manages.

Wish you'd listened to her more as a child...

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Wish you'd listened to her more as a child...

football paid crap in the 70s

 

[Hugh Jass]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

I can't believe Glen Hoddle gets pundit gigs, my 81 year old mum could make more intelligent comments about football than he manages.

Hoddle has built an entire career around stating the painfully fucking obvious and acting like he has just imparted a profound wisdom.

[thetime]

To be fair klopps was pretty correct on Neville and pundits in general. Full of failed managers like souness, Neville, hoddle, shearer etc etc.

Sadly they gotta get someone.

[pink_triangle]

11 minutes ago, thetime said:

To be fair klopps was pretty correct on Neville and pundits in general. Full of failed managers like souness, Neville, hoddle, shearer etc etc.

Sadly they gotta get someone.

I would argue being a failed manager does not mean you don't have the potential to be a good one, nor does it mean you don't understand the game.

[TheGayTent]

24 minutes ago, thetime said:

To be fair klopps was pretty correct on Neville and pundits in general. Full of failed managers like souness, Neville, hoddle, shearer etc etc.

Sadly they gotta get someone.

I think Souness gets unfair stick as an ex manager. 

[The Nal]

35 minutes ago, thetime said:

To be fair klopps was pretty correct on Neville and pundits in general. Full of failed managers like souness, Neville, hoddle, shearer etc etc.

You don't have to be Fergie or Bob Paisley to know when a keeper makes a mistake mind you

[Hugh Jass]

It's possible to be a great pundit and a failed manager. Pundits are paid to analyse the match, pick out the strengths and weaknesses in individual and team performances and communicate them to the watching public. That's all.There's a much bigger skill set required to be a successful manager.

[TheGayTent]

5 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

It's possible to be a great pundit and a failed manager. Pundits are paid to analyse the match, pick out the strengths and weaknesses in individual and team performances and communicate them to the watching public. That's all.There's a much bigger skill set required to be a successful manager.

True, I think if a show has more than one pundit then a mix of ex players/managers AND journalists can be good, but modern broadcasting has gone away from that. 

[Hugh Jass]

14 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

True, I think if a show has more than one pundit then a mix of ex players/managers AND journalists can be good, but modern broadcasting has gone away from that.

The best punditry on tv is on BT's Champions League Show, not a single ex-player on there.

[mjsell]

Personally I'm a big fan of the pundit that goes so far the other way from intellegent analysis that he's utterly incoherent quotes are in some way magically informative.

"When they don’t score they hardly ever win."

"It’s hit the facial part of his head."

"Alderweireld played really well last year for Tottenham, let's hope he can transfer that form to Spurs this season."

"To stay in the game, you have to stay in the game."

"That shot is impossible. I saw Yaya Toure do it once."

"Whichever teams scores more goals usually wins."

 

Michael Owen is on a completely different level to all those around him.

 

[Wooderson]

2 hours ago, thetime said:

To be fair klopps was pretty correct on Neville and pundits in general. Full of failed managers like souness, Neville, hoddle, shearer etc etc.

Sadly they gotta get someone.

 

[big__phil]

55 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

The best punditry on tv is on BT's Champions League Show, not a single ex-player on there.

It's so bloody old fashioned to assume that only ex-players are qualified to talk about football on TV, when jornos generally speak far better about the game. Obviously ex-players have a place in the media (tactical/technical analysis), but literally anyone can say 'great goal' or 'poor goalkeeping'.

[TheGayTent]

9 minutes ago, big__phil said:

It's so bloody old fashioned to assume that only ex-players are qualified to talk about football on TV, when jornos generally speak far better about the game. Obviously ex-players have a place in the media (tactical/technical analysis), but literally anyone can say 'great goal' or 'poor goalkeeping'.

It's not old fashioned. It's new. 

In the old days journos and broadcasters were used - as well as ex players. 

Having ex players as pundits doesn't annoy me, it's ex players being chosen because they were the best players that annoys me. 

If Steve Bull makes a better pundit than Thierry Henry then employ Bull and sack Henry. 

If Gerry Taggart makes a better pundit than Jamie Carragher then employ Taggart and sack Carragher. Etc etc

Edited December 13, 2016 by TheGayTent

[big__phil]

34 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

It's not old fashioned. It's new. 

In the old days journos and broadcasters were used. 

Having ex players as pundits doesn't annoy me, it's ex players being chosen because they were the best players that annoys me. 

If Steve Bull makes a better pundit than Thierry Henry then employ Bull and sack Henry. 

If Gerry Taggart makes a better pundit than Jamie Carragher then employ Taggart and sack Carragher. Etc etc

Perhaps I'm showing my age then, but I've only ever know MOTD/ITV coverage with ex-players on it. Dreadful ones at that. You are right though, the best candidates should get the best roles.

One who has surprised me is Jermaine Jenas, who talks properly about the game, and talks sense. Lee Dixon is another who should get more work.

The less said about Keown, Murphy, Townsend etc the better.

Anyway if you want the best football coverage turn off your TV and put 5live on instead.

Edited December 13, 2016 by big__phil

[TheGayTent]

17 minutes ago, big__phil said:

Perhaps I'm showing my age then, but I've only ever know MOTD/ITV coverage with ex-players on it. Dreadful ones at that. You are right though, the best candidates should get the best roles.

One who has surprised me is Jermaine Jenas, who talks properly about the game, and talks sense. Lee Dixon is another who should get more roles.

The less said about Keown, Murphy, Townsend etc the better.

Anyway if you want the best football coverage turn off your TV and put 5live on instead.

I sympathise slightly with the tv companies because they can't please everybody. 

For example, I'm not a fan of Jenas like you are. Jenas said this of Costa's goal at the weekend:

"When he cut inside I thought he had a lot to do, but that is right in the top bin" 

Fuck off, just fuck off. 

As for 5live, it's a mixture but getting worse. Now that Mike Ingham has retired we get even more of the self important smug twat that is Alan Green. 

Fuck off, just fuck off. 

I'm off to my anger management class. 

[mjsell]

44 minutes ago, big__phil said:

One who has surprised me is Jermaine Jenas, who talks properly about the game, and talks sense. Lee Dixon is another who should get more work.

The less said about Keown, Murphy, Townsend etc the better.

 

20 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

I'm not a fan of Jenas like you are. Jenas said this of Costa's goal at the weekend:

"When he cut inside I thought he had a lot to do, but that is right in the top bin" 

Fuck off, just fuck off.

Despite that quote I think I'm in the pro Jenas camp as well - he's certainly one of the better recent graduates.  I accept that pundits can't get everything they say to be spot on, they are human like the rest of us after all, but I do think Jenas does actually offer something to discussions - which I too was very surprised by.

Its the consistent stupid remarks or bland comments that are just describing what everyone can see that grind on me - the biggest one that is doing that atm which I cant stand is Ian Wright. He seems to be a cross-channel nightmare that you cant get rid of at the moment and all he ever does is describe exactly what is happening on screen - no analysis, no insight. The less legendary Arsenal players on telly the better for me - just souring their reputation. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by mjsell

[thetime]

How opinions differ hey, I think Murphy is the best pundit on the box.