Women only venue

[sloseph]

i think this is a great idea

I remember one of my female friends going to see the new Magic Mike film in the cinema at a women only screening, she said even though the film wash trash the experience of a cinema full on women all there having a great time without having to worry about what a man was going to do/say about it was incredible

from what I understand when you get a group of women together in a place without us men  they have a fantastic time, that exactly the sort of thing that should happen at Glastonbury

I've also heard some horror stories of the ways women have been treated in the crowds even a Glastonbury so i'm all up for banning all men from a little room, we can't be trusted to be in there

I think people need to realise that even though someone of us are Men and we don't think we've ever made a women feel discouraged to join in it is a feeling they experience and we should do everything we can to help them, if that means creating a microvenue where they can let lose then so be it

it's going to make 0 difference to my festival other than some of my female friends might go and have a wicked time, i'll be somewhere else grinning like a loon

[Tigerdragon]

My two cents (I love debates like these!)

Women, while they remain the disadvantaged half, have no need to answer to men, nor to include them, nor is not including them any justification for continued social injustice. No other form of activism has ever had an obligation to include the group they incite in social wrongs. Imagine environmental campaigns heeding the sensibilities of Shell and BP.

Yes, deliberation and discussion has a key place in progress, but it has limits (as fights for the vote in the early 20th century showed, discussion can just be ignored when convenient) and if women can find empowerment amongst themselves then, frankly, that's bloody brilliant and good on them.

The key key difference is that this is not exclusion that causes disempowerment, disadvantage or unfairness on a systematic or structural level. It Is actually attempting to combat it. Sure, men are disadvantaged in that they cant get in the venue, but come on - if anyone think that tips the scales decidedly in terms of net-privilege then that's a pretty strange conclusion.

Basically, I think whilst middle-class, white men remain the dominant group (and I say it as one of them) they need to severely check their privilege before they even pass judgement of anything like this - whether its a women-only rule at a 50 capacity venue or a 50,000 strong rally. When I look at things like the pay gap, or relative voting power, or the feminization of global poverty, I think myself lucky not to have half the population taking to the streets in mass general strikes, not unlucky to pay more in night clubs or have one less stage to go to. Who are we to demand universal access to every debate about women? Maybe we've got to used to our voice being heard?

NB// As for the wide-ranging discussion some want, this venue has inspired it, hasn't it? Its existence has seen a large amount of posts and views on this site alone and no doubt will inspire more at the festival between groups of friends. That is also a really valuable thing, even if the discussion is not a free for all inside the venue itself. It'll probably be far more prominent than just some small scale talks to those who already buy feminism - leftfield caters to that anyway!!

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, willsnewman said:

I'm suggesting that such a venue should absolutely exist for discussion and campaigning for equality, but that discussion should be open to everyone.

But that's your rules, not the rules of those people who wish to have the discussion. Why should they have to operate to your rules and not theirs?

As I just pointed out, they have to work to men-approved rules the rest of the time, and the very point is that it's not about what's men-approved.

If their take on things is, perhaps, contradicted by discussing inclusion while excluding some, it's ultimately no more contradicted than your take that they can only talk about being equal with men if men approve of how they do it.

At the end of the day - if you agree with the idea of better empowered women - the important thing is working out how to get there, rather than the insistence of a path that's beyond reproach, and especially when the only approved path is the very one that hasn't worked.

[CaledonianGonzo]

7 minutes ago, Tigerdragon said:

My two cents (I love debates like these!)

Worth at least 5 cents, this.

[Winslow Leach]

19 minutes ago, sloseph said:

i think this is a great idea

I remember one of my female friends going to see the new Magic Mike film in the cinema at a women only screening, she said even though the film wash trash the experience of a cinema full on women all there having a great time without having to worry about what a man was going to do/say about it was incredible

from what I understand when you get a group of women together in a place without us men  they have a fantastic time, that exactly the sort of thing that should happen at Glastonbury

I've also heard some horror stories of the ways women have been treated in the crowds even a Glastonbury so i'm all up for banning all men from a little room, we can't be trusted to be in there

I think people need to realise that even though someone of us are Men and we don't think we've ever made a women feel discouraged to join in it is a feeling they experience and we should do everything we can to help them, if that means creating a microvenue where they can let lose then so be it

it's going to make 0 difference to my festival other than some of my female friends might go and have a wicked time, i'll be somewhere else grinning like a loon

Your friend is wrong about one thing: the new Magic Mike film is fuckin A.

[Jamie D]

To be fair the creators have probably done this to open up the debate around feminism and equality. And they've certainly done that!

[eFestivals]

Guardian Pick

 

6 7

There's also going to be an all-male zone called Shangri-Le.

[nats2086]

I think that these workshops and discussions surrounding equality only involving women could be really beneficial, as sharing ideas and possible solutions, or even just relaying personal experiences, will only help to give the confidence in their thoughts and themselves that some may be lacking when it comes to completely open forums, where there are those who feel like they don't want to speak up for fear of being shouted down or thought of as 'silly'. Being made to feel that your own opinion is as valid as everyone else's can only help in the end, even if it takes a women only 'safe space' to set the ball rolling.

I also don't agree with the "preaching to the converted" point with regards to the education aspect, as I think women do need educating, as there are still those who just kind of accept things and put up with them, as its seen as just the way things are. I'm including myself in this as, for example, at Glastonbury last year one of a group of boys stood behind me in the crowd felt my bum, then all laughed and pointed at each other as to who was to blame when I turned round and told them to stop and made a remark about how my short shorts made them do it. I spent the rest of my time watching the band feeling slightly uncomfortable, but didn't move because I thought that this is just something you have to put up with as a woman. I know that this is not really a big problem compared to what a lot of women face in the world, and I know that its my own fault for leaving myself feeling in an uncomfortable situation instead of just moving to a different spot, but I think that this is not an uncommon feeling amongst women and is why spaces like this should be celebrated, as feeling empowered and educated can help us to react to these things differently. 

I understand the outcry of "its not all men" and all that, as decent people don't want to be lumped into a generalised group, and i have lots of really lovely male friends, but unfortunately you can't judge a book by its cover and as much as I don't want to treat anyone with caution based on their gender, most of us have grown up with being told not to talk to strange men, not to wear the short shorts etc etc, which will always sow that little seed of doubt in the back of the mind.

Sorry if this is a bit rambling or just repeating what others have said, but I've just been thinking about it after seeing all the posts on here.

[giantkatestacks]

I hope lots of people read your post nats.

You don't have to put up with it but as you know you do have to make a call whether or not by reacting you would then bring down a whole load of aggression on yourself. Often when you react you then get called a frigid slag etc, or in my case a frigid old slag. I can only hold out the promise that as you get older it happens much less. Is that any comfort? 

It would be nice to go out and not worry about it wouldnt it? If this microvenue does what it says on the tin and isnt a pisstake then maybe I'll see you there. I'll dig out my tank girl t-shirt.

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, nats2086 said:

at Glastonbury last year one of a group of boys stood behind me in the crowd felt my bum, then all laughed and pointed at each other as to who was to blame when I turned round and told them to stop and made a remark about how my short shorts made them do it. I spent the rest of my time watching the band feeling slightly uncomfortable, but didn't move because I thought that this is just something you have to put up with as a woman. I know that this is not really a big problem compared to what a lot of women face in the world, and I know that its my own fault for leaving myself feeling in an uncomfortable situation instead of just moving to a different spot, but I think that this is not an uncommon feeling amongst women and is why spaces like this should be celebrated, as feeling empowered and educated can help us to react to these things differently. 

I hate that men still do this kind of shit with impunity.  You shouldn't have to put up with it - it wasn't your fault, it was sexual assault.

I wonder how many men have had experiences like that in any place ever? 

[Uh-Oh!]

Be a great magnet of ugly 3rd wave feminists whining about the patriarchy. will keep em away from the rest of the festival.

[fur_q]

3 hours ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

Here we go. Don't go labelling me. I totally believe in equality. I don't believe in feminism. They are not tied together in any way, believing in one dies not mean you have to believe in the other. Feminism as far as I have seen it in it's many guises over the last 30 years has had very little to do with equality.

 

 

feminism 

 

Pronunciation: /ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/ 

NOUN

[MASS NOUN]

The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

 

 

equality

Pronunciation: /ɪˈkwɒlɪti/  

 

 /iːˈkwɒlɪti/ 

NOUN

1[MASS NOUN] The state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities:

 

 

There's no debate about it words have meanings. If you don't believe in feminism then you don't believe in equality.

[Uh-Oh!]

Theyve just announced one of the speakers

[Watto1990]

6 minutes ago, Uh-Oh! said:

Theyve just announced one of the speakers

So is Uh Oh is the kind of person women are supposed to be trying to make comfortable and educate, welcoming him in with open arms?

[JanieM28]

1 hour ago, Uh-Oh! said:

Be a great magnet of ugly 3rd wave feminists whining about the patriarchy. will keep em away from the rest of the festival.

Are you the guy who w*nked in front of me on a train in 1975 when I was on my way from boarding school? And then came into his handkerchief when I suddenly realised what he was doing? I was fifteen years old.

Thanks for the memory!

Or, maybe, you're the 60-year-old actor who told me that he would 'very much like to perform cunnilingus on me' in an effort to get me into bed with him. 

I was 18 years old. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by JanieM28

[Guest]

Amazing that some people take offence at the idea that feminism is for women. Whatever next, I ask you?

[Waapster]

1 hour ago, Uh-Oh! said:

Be a great magnet of ugly 3rd wave feminists whining about the patriarchy. will keep em away from the rest of the festival.

Really, what do you get from coming on here and making yourself look like a dick?

[jonodillieono]

2 hours ago, fur_q said:

 

feminism 

 

Pronunciation: /ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/ 

NOUN

[MASS NOUN]

The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

 

 

equality

Pronunciation: /ɪˈkwɒlɪti/  

 

 /iːˈkwɒlɪti/ 

NOUN

1[MASS NOUN] The state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities:

 

 

There's no debate about it words have meanings. If you don't believe in feminism then you don't believe in equality.

So does this make men's right activists feminists? They believe in equality of the sexes just that women are the more privileged of the sexes

[fur_q]

2 minutes ago, jonodillieono said:

So does this make men's right activists feminists? They believe in equality of the sexes just that women are the more privileged of the sexes

What?! 

[musky]

6 hours ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

Here we go. Don't go labelling me. I totally believe in equality. I don't believe in feminism. They are not tied together in any way, believing in one dies not mean you have to believe in the other. Feminism as far as I have seen it in it's many guises over the last 30 years has had very little to do with equality.

That is a seperate topic if anyone wants to open that can of worms.

I think you need to look a little harder.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, jonodillieono said:

So does this make men's right activists feminists? They believe in equality of the sexes just that women are the more privileged of the sexes

No, it makes them ignorant morons.

[mandolin]

2 hours ago, Uh-Oh! said:

Be a great magnet of ugly 3rd wave feminists whining about the patriarchy. will keep em away from the rest of the festival.

Diddums is lacking a bit of attention in the real world, huh?

[Guest]

On 03/06/2016 at 8:53 PM, Woffy said:

Lordy. People who dress like that must inhabit a netherwold in the ether between Revs vodka bars and Parklife.

What music do they (think they should) listen to?

I will pull you up on that Woffy. Parklife gets a rough time on here and rightly so as there has been violent episodes there that have been both shocking and disgusting.

Yet Parklife is far, far more diverse and multicultural than Glastonbury is, in regards to the people that attend. There is a great mish mash of all different types of people, who in the most part are just there to enjoy themselves. That is in stark contrast to Glastonbury where it is a predominantly white crowd.

You would never ever get a womens only part at the Parklife and I think thats a good thing. Everyone is there together to have a good time.

Now you can criticise the music and the few dickheads who have given Parklife a bad name, but one thing you can't do is stereotype the crowd as it is far more diverse than Glastonbury.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Guest

[Woffy]

7 minutes ago, eastynh said:

I will pull you up on that Woffy. Parklife gets a rough time on here and rightly so as there has been violent episodes there that have been both shocking and disgusting.

Yet Parklife is far, far more diverse and multicultural than Glastonbury is, in regards to the people that attend. There is a great mish mash of all different types of people, who in the most part are just there to enjoy themselves. That is in stark contrast to Glastonbury where it is a predominantly white crowd.

You would never ever get a womens only part at the Parklife and I think thats a good thing. Everyone is there together to have a good time.

Now you can criticise the music and the few dickheads who have given Parklife a bad name, but one thing you can't do is stereotype the crowd as it is far more diverse than Glastonbury.

I appreciate your heartfelt post Easty. But i think the keyword in my post was 'between'. The negative aspects of Parklife you stated yourself. Those of a night out at a Revs speak for themselves. 'Between' was key.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Woffy said:

I appreciate your heartfelt post Easty. But i think the keyword in my post was 'between'. The negative aspects of Parklife you stated yourself. Those of a night out at a Revs speak for themselves. 'Between' was key.

No worries dude, maybe my reply was a little more harsh than it needed to be anyway. 

There are negative parts to Parklife, so much so that I felt really uncomfortable at one point there myself a few years ago. Yet it deserves great credit for some off the things it does achieve.