Glastonbury Festival bans sale of Native American-style headdresses

[tillyandthewall]

Is the tipi field cultural appropriation? Should it be banned as it's an amalgamation of many disparate Native American tribe's different cultural artefacts? I.E central North American tipis and northwest North American totem poles? Are you saying they're all the same/all look the same? Can guess the answer to this already: "It's authentic, sweetie, not like those charvs in their headdresses".

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

No. For a start, one chooses to be a police officer, not to be a member of a particular set of cultures. So conceptually it's completely different.

In my experience I'd say that the majority of people who join the police do so to join a particular culture. However, that's another discussion from this one.

[stardustjunkie]

The festival want to discourage it, not ban it. By banning the selling of them they are simply putting a stop to anyone acquiring one once inside the fence. If they bring one, they're not going to target them, remove it etc.

It's basically making people think about it some more instead of thinking "that looks cool" and buying it without any second thought to it's significance or meaning to other people.

[Winslow Leach]

No. For a start, one chooses to be a police officer, not to be a member of a particular set of cultures. So conceptually it's completely different.

And then there's the far more important point that wearing a police helmet doesn't contribute to an intellectual culture in which individual members of various police forces suffer real, avoidable harm from the homogenisation of their distinct cultures.

Russy will probably be along in a bit to tell you that the police tend to be more likely to be agents of oppression than victims of it, too.

I've used up my quota of positive votes for the day, but you're spot on.

[Winslow Leach]

They've banned Christmas too.

[Winslow Leach]

All the food stalls will be forced to use Halal meat.

[Winslow Leach]

Why isn't there an International Men's Day?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

What's the score with face painting? Is it OK to face paint when it has religious or spiritual beginnings?

[fatyeti24]

Why isn't there an International Men's Day?

When you're an international man like myself, everyday is your day.

[Winslow Leach]

What's the score with face painting? Is it OK to face paint when it has religious or spiritual beginnings?

Depends whether you're being a cat or blacking up.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

When you're an international man like myself, everyday is your day.

"Girlie Girlie"

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

He has one up here, one down there

One in the city, one down the shore

One is a lawyer, one is a doctor

One of them works with a little contractor

One down East, one down West

He has one up North and two down South

And one sells pot

And she keeps on hanging out

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

He has one in school, one big fool fool

He has one every time I say she thinks she rules

One is a nurse, she says she come first

The other night them going out and pick her a new purse

One is a star, one works in a bar

She can smile when the two a-them spar

One gettie gettie, one frettie frettie

He won't drink no other milk but Betty

Too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

One in Canada, one in Uganda

One in America, one Cuba

One in Russia, one in China

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

A big fat one who's a go-go dancer

A little slim one who's a radio announcer

One highty highty, one flighty flighty

Before he grows old he wants one on the North Pole

One in a London one in Japan

One in Scotland, one in Finland

One in Taiwan, one in Iran

One in Syria, one Tanzania

One in LA, one in Australia

One in New York, one in Antigua

One Grenada, one in China, one in India

One Bolivia, one Tortuga

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Live long and prosper.

Yog

[fatyeti24]

What's the score with face painting? Is it OK to face paint when it has religious or spiritual beginnings?

Same as most things I suspect. Do as you please, if someone claims to be offended then consider their reasons and offer what you consider to be the appropriate response.

Offending religion or whatever the fuck spiritually is supposed to be is not high in my concerns.

But to each their own.

[Winslow Leach]

"Girlie Girlie"

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

He has one up here, one down there

One in the city, one down the shore

One is a lawyer, one is a doctor

One of them works with a little contractor

One down East, one down West

He has one up North and two down South

And one sells pot

And she keeps on hanging out

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

He has one in school, one big fool fool

He has one every time I say she thinks she rules

One is a nurse, she says she come first

The other night them going out and pick her a new purse

One is a star, one works in a bar

She can smile when the two a-them spar

One gettie gettie, one frettie frettie

He won't drink no other milk but Betty

Too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

One in Canada, one in Uganda

One in America, one Cuba

One in Russia, one in China

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

A big fat one who's a go-go dancer

A little slim one who's a radio announcer

One highty highty, one flighty flighty

Before he grows old he wants one on the North Pole

One in a London one in Japan

One in Scotland, one in Finland

One in Taiwan, one in Iran

One in Syria, one Tanzania

One in LA, one in Australia

One in New York, one in Antigua

One Grenada, one in China, one in India

One Bolivia, one Tortuga

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Young man, you too girlie girlie

You just flash it 'round the worldie

Live long and prosper.

Yog

There's only one song that begins "Young man..." worth listening to.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Depends whether you're being a cat or blacking up.

No mention of voodooism ?

[davefrompompey]

Is the tipi field cultural appropriation? Should it be banned as it's an amalgamation of many disparate Native American tribe's different cultural artefacts? I.E central North American tipis and northwest North American totem poles? Are you saying they're all the same/all look the same? Can guess the answer to this already: "It's authentic, sweetie, not like those charvs in their headdresses".

You make a pretty good point there. A tipi is a tent so it would be absurd to label it as offensive or damaging... but there's potential for it to be done in the wrong way in terms of the presentation of cultural stereotypes. I don't know, I've never been in the field.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

There's only one song that begins "Young man..." worth listening to.

Common ground - at last.

[gizmoman]

Looks like they'll need the headdress police to go round checking which ones are 'native american style' i'm sure this one would be banned

But how about this?

or this?

Is this offensive?

[found home in 2009]

I dislike people that try to be offensive. However, I'm not convinced the people wearing these outfits are trying to cause offence, and I don't think going round looking to be offended is a good thing either.

Live and let live is what I say.

[Keithy]

I'm never particularly keen on banning things...would much rather focus on educating and making people aware why things may cause offence.

I suspect 99.9% of people who wear headdresses are not looking to make a point, cause offence or even remotely aware of cultural issues....they simply think they look cool.

I'll happily be shouted down but I think there's a world of difference wearing something to deliberately cause offence and wearing something because you just like it/think it's cool. I'm not saying either is right or wrong but it all just seems a bit unglastonbury to me....a festival that is all about freedom of expression.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Keithy

[Winslow Leach]

Can we just clear one thing up: nobody is banning anybody from wearing anything. They're stopping selling them.

[davefrompompey]

Can we just clear one thing up: nobody is banning anybody from wearing anything. They're stopping selling them.

Yes. And another thing that needs to be cleared up - it's not being done simply because some people might be 'offended', and certainly not because they might be offended on someone else's behalf. It's far more than that.

[Winslow Leach]

I suspect 99.9% of people who wear headdresses are not looking to make a point, cause offence or even remotely aware of cultural issues....they simply think they look cool.

I'll happily be shouted down but I think there's a world of difference wearing something to deliberately cause offence and wearing something because you just like it/think it's cool. I'm not saying either is right or wrong but it all just seems a bit unglastonbury to me....a festival that is all about freedom of expression.

But you said it yourself, they're not really expressing anything. I don't think the people who wear them are actively setting out to do any of those things, I just think it's not something that's even crossed their minds. And I don't judge them for that, it wouldn't have crossed my mind a few years back. It's a case of making people more aware that there are issues for consideration surrounding these types of thing.

It's like the concept of institutionalised racism: everyone is against the idea of it, but fewer people are willing to accept that the very nature of something being institutionalised means that we are all guilty of contributing to it in ways we don't even notice or acknowledge.

[Winslow Leach]

Yes. And another thing that needs to be cleared up - it's not being done simply because some people might be 'offended', and certainly not because they might be offended on someone else's behalf. It's far more than that.

Exactly. I've pointed this out before but in my experience people wilfully ignore it because they're desperate to be offended by what they see as someone else's taking offence.

(And before anyone gets offended by me saying people are getting offended about the idea of offence, I'm not just talking about these forums. I always seem to get sucked into these arguments on the internet)

[musky]

It pains me that so many people are ignorant of the harm stereotyping can have on people who suffer discrimination that affects their daily lives.

The blacking up comment earlier was a real peach.

[Keithy]

Can we just clear one thing up: nobody is banning anybody from wearing anything. They're stopping selling them.

If retailers are prevented from selling them on site, then I take that as retailers are banned from selling them. I suppose you could argue the semantics that they're not licensed to sell them on site. But I take your point about nobody is being banned from wearing them.

I have 2 default points in life:

1) unless it's illegal, people shouldn't be banned from selling, buying or wearing anything.

2) disagree with everything Norman Tebbitt thinks.