Football 2014/15

[mjsell]

I love a good discussion about premier league goalkeepers. We have been on at our spurs mates all season saying that Lloris just scrapes into the top 5 in the prem (he obviously doesn't just scrape before anyone kicks off at this), and always get a quite beautiful response.

The thing you have got to remember is that goalkeepers at different levels in the prem have to be good at different things. A keeper playing for a relegation threatened side will inevitably make far more saves (and possibly come across as a better keeper in the process) because he is forced to. Whereas keepers in the top half generally have less to do but are required to make that one crucial save at the right time and make minimal mistakes.

The best example of this over exaggerated level of keeping this season would probably be Rob Green. He had a good season in general terms, made strings of very good saves, but that doesn't mean he could cut it at a top 4 club.

Edited June 12, 2015 by mjsell

[kaosmark2]

I love a good discussion about premier league goalkeepers. We have been on at our spurs mates all season saying that Lloris just scrapes into the top 5 in the prem (he obviously doesn't just scrape before anyone kicks off at this), and always get a quite beautiful response.

The thing you have got to remember is that goalkeepers at different levels in the prem have to be good at different things. A keeper playing for a relegation threatened side will inevitably make far more saves (and possibly come across as a better keeper in the process) because he is forced to. Whereas keepers in the top half generally have less to do but are required to make that one crucial save at the right time and make minimal mistakes.

The best example of this over exaggerated level of keeping this season would probably be Rob Green. He had a good season in general terms, made strings of very good saves, but that doesn't mean he could cut it at a top 4 club.

I agree, but one feature that is consistent at all levels, is a goalkeeper has to have a good command of his box, and make the calls of whether to go for a cross or leave it to his defenders, whether to punch or catch, etc. Mignolet is one of the weaker keepers in the league at that (and yes, I'm aware the first 6 months at Liverpool aren't fully representative). The other big criticism of Mignolet, is that when he stops a shot rather than catches it, he often doesn't get distance, leading to easier chances than harder or wider saves give.

He's improved back to the level he was at Sunderland, but he's still one of the worse keepers in the league.

[pink_triangle]

yep, that's pretty much what I was meaning, with Mignolet in the top half of that middle group if keepers.

I wasn't trying to claim he was fantastic, I was saying his skills are somewhere around the right level/same level as the team he plays for (who finished 7th).

Both have played recent years in the Champs and not the Prem, without Prem clubs coming in for them.

That shows to a large degree* what Prem managers think of their skills compared to the other goalies that are around

(* I happily admit there might be a bit more to it than that, as those keepers might be getting a game in the Champs and think they might not in the Prem - but then again, if they don't in the Prem, it's because there's better goalies already in the Prem ... overall, a number of years in the Champs is very likely to mean they're not particularly rated by Prem managers).

Although it's not like loads of other championship keepers have been bought instead. Butland and Hennessey come to mind, but now I'm struggling. Most teams seem to be looking for more experience as backup.

The reserve keeper is a funny job. It's not like the reserve defender when you can often cover 3 positions on the pitch and the first choice are much more likely to be injured or suspended.

[pink_triangle]

Yessssssssss, don't need to say anymore!

[Dead throne]

Belgium played so bad today...

Edited June 12, 2015 by Dead throne

[kingcrawler]

Fair play to Wales, that's a fantastic result. I thought Belgium were quite poor but don't want to take anything away from Wales. Strange to think that they'll now be a top seed for the next World Cup qualifiers after being a bottom seed for the last ones, although they were really far too good to be a bottom seed last time.

[pink_triangle]

Fair play to Wales, that's a fantastic result. I thought Belgium were quite poor but don't want to take anything away from Wales. Strange to think that they'll now be a top seed for the next World Cup qualifiers after being a bottom seed for the last ones, although they were really far too good to be a bottom seed last time.

I missed the game, typical! Belgium being ranked second is silly, I don't think they have beaten anyone of note in a proper game. However Belgium are a team full of good individuals and to take 4 points off them is fantastic for us.

We have given ourselves a great chance of qualification, but no complacency yet. We are playing well and have had some good luck with injuries, hopefully it will continue. The likes of Ashley Williams and Hennessey are playing better than they do in the premiership. Bale has played phenomenal throughout and has shown great leadership.

Wales true level is probably low second/high third seed, but if fifa want to overrate us than that's fine.

Great point for Scotland yesterday, I don't see any way back for Ireland now.

[kingcrawler]

I missed the game, typical! Belgium being ranked second is silly, I don't think they have beaten anyone of note in a proper game. However Belgium are a team full of good individuals and to take 4 points off them is fantastic for us.

We have given ourselves a great chance of qualification, but no complacency yet. We are playing well and have had some good luck with injuries, hopefully it will continue. The likes of Ashley Williams and Hennessey are playing better than they do in the premiership. Bale has played phenomenal throughout and has shown great leadership.

Wales true level is probably low second/high third seed, but if fifa want to overrate us than that's fine.

Great point for Scotland yesterday, I don't see any way back for Ireland now.

Yeah Wales have benefited from Belgium's high position in the rankings but that's the way the system is. Along with Romania they'll probably be the top seed most countries want and I'd be happy if we were drawn with them though I doubt we'd beat them at the moment. I don't think there's not too much between Scotland and Wales outwith Bale and Ramsey but having those two top class players like that just gives Wales an edge.

Yeah a draw was a decent result given we were awful in the first half but it's hard to get too excited about only drawing with a poor Ireland team. They've got no gameplan other than launching high balls into the box. You can see why they've scored so many late goals in this campaign as the last 20 minutes was just crosses into the box and eventually one of those will fall in the right place. Scotland's defence were probably better equipped for that than the other teams in the group though as our players are more used to that style of play. The main disappointment from the game is that a win would have put us in pot 2 for the World Cup qualifiers but hopefully that won't have too much of an effect.

[Dead throne]

I missed the game, typical! Belgium being ranked second is silly, I don't think they have beaten anyone of note in a proper game. However Belgium are a team full of good individuals and to take 4 points off them is fantastic for us.

We have given ourselves a great chance of qualification, but no complacency yet. We are playing well and have had some good luck with injuries, hopefully it will continue. The likes of Ashley Williams and Hennessey are playing better than they do in the premiership. Bale has played phenomenal throughout and has shown great leadership.

Wales true level is probably low second/high third seed, but if fifa want to overrate us than that's fine.

Great point for Scotland yesterday, I don't see any way back for Ireland now.

the US? the Netherlands? Wales? Croatia?Serbia? Sweden? Korea? Russia? France? To name a few....

 

Apart from Wales, Belgium has an easy group though, and same could be said about Wales itself, and that most definitely goes for England. 

[pink_triangle]

the US? the Netherlands? Wales? Croatia?Serbia? Sweden? Korea? Russia? France? To name a few....

Apart from Wales, Belgium has an easy group though, and same could be said about Wales itself, and that most definitely goes for England.

Which of those games were not friendlies. They have had 2 relatively nice qualification groups and had a nice draw in the world cup. Usa may have been their toughest competitive game, while hard working and organised they are lacking in terms of talent.After beating 4 mediocre teams in the world cup, they were beaten by the first decent opponent.

If a club is the second best team in the world, i would expect some level of accomplishment. This Belgium side is a group of individuals who have achieved nothing of note.

Also I would dispute the fact wales group is easy. Certainly one of the kinder ones, but no evidence before the group started that wales were better than anyone outside Andorra and maybe Cyprus.Wales have had to battle hard for every point, apart from maybe the win at Israel

Edited June 14, 2015 by pink_triangle

[TheGayTent]

That's a lovely goal - only turned on 20 seconds before too !

[Dead throne]

Which of those games were not friendlies. They have had 2 relatively nice qualification groups and had a nice draw in the world cup. Usa may have been their toughest competitive game, while hard working and organised they are lacking in terms of talent.After beating 4 mediocre teams in the world cup, they were beaten by the first decent opponent.

If a club is the second best team in the world, i would expect some level of accomplishment. This Belgium side is a group of individuals who have achieved nothing of note.

Also I would dispute the fact wales group is easy. Certainly one of the kinder ones, but no evidence before the group started that wales were better than anyone outside Andorra and maybe Cyprus.Wales have had to battle hard for every point, apart from maybe the win at Israel

Yes but Belgium goes full in every game, friendly or not, unlike Germany or France for example. That's why they're 2nd in the rankings. 

 

I do agree Belgium has played bad in a lot of games (apart against the US and France) recently, and also during the world cup they were really disappointing for me personally. 

 

Achieved nothing of note? Wasn't De Bruyne the Bundesliga footballer of the year? And Hazard? Kompany?   Witsel? Courtois? 

 

Wales's group is harder than for example England's group and still after every win they are deemed champions. Lmao they're shit 

[Gucci Piggy]

Yes but Belgium goes full in every game, friendly or not, unlike Germany or France for example. That's why they're 2nd in the rankings.

I do agree Belgium has played bad in a lot of games (apart against the US and France) recently, and also during the world cup they were really disappointing for me personally.

Achieved nothing of note? Wasn't De Bruyne the Bundesliga footballer of the year? And Hazard? Kompany? Witsel? Courtois?

Wales's group is harder than for example England's group and still after every win they are deemed champions. Lmao they're shit

This post just backs up what he says.

Your first paragraph explains why they're ranked second whilst not being the second best team in the world.

He said they're a bunch of individuals who've achieved nothing together. You responded with a list of individual achievements.

[Dead throne]

ah well

[thetime]

Got to love the scousers, not quite jamie..

 

Rafa Benitez will succeed at Real Madrid because 'he always wins titles', says Jamie Carragher 

 

[luckysalt]

So just got back from Download to find we are signing Micah Richards tomorrow. Great signing IMO, to be used as a CB I understand. £65k a week, apparently he turned down £90k a week from Sunderland! West Ham and some Italian clubs tried for him too.

 

Think thats a solid bit of business from Tim for his first signing. Thats two in from Man City now with Sinclair.

 

Talk of Huddlestone for £5.5m and Pogba's brother too. Although I don't know if that was just interest the latter and was a backup if we didn't get Richards done.

[pink_triangle]

 

So just got back from Download to find we are signing Micah Richards tomorrow. Great signing IMO, to be used as a CB I understand. £65k a week, apparently he turned down £90k a week from Sunderland! West Ham and some Italian clubs tried for him too.

 

Think thats a solid bit of business from Tim for his first signing. Thats two in from Man City now with Sinclair.

 

Talk of Huddlestone for £5.5m and Pogba's brother too. Although I don't know if that was just interest the latter and was a backup if we didn't get Richards done.

Pual Pogbas brother used to play for wrexham and is nowhere near premiership level. I think he was at Crewe last I heard and plays as a forward. Unless he has another brother that I am not aware of.

[TheGayTent]

Richards is a big gamble, but one that could well pay off. Worth the risk I would have said.

[pink_triangle]

Annoying that Rooney scored that goal yesterday, I would have quite enjoyed talking about Wales as officially the best team in Britain!! I dont pay much attention to rankings, but would have made an exception!

[luckysalt]

 

Pual Pogbas brother used to play for wrexham and is nowhere near premiership level. I think he was at Crewe last I heard and plays as a forward. Unless he has another brother that I am not aware of.

 

He's a defender, centre back, this one.

 

EDIT - yeah you're on about Mathius Pogba

 

this is Florentin Pogba, plays in France for St Ettienne

Edited June 15, 2015 by luckysalt

[kaosmark2]

Richards is a big gamble, but one that could well pay off. Worth the risk I would have said.

Agreed. we'd been linked with him which I quite liked

[Osama Jim Laden]

Agreed. we'd been linked with him which I quite liked

Us too, good signing IMO

[Gucci Piggy]

Couple of tidbits on SSN just now that I hadn't seen before.

Cech interested in Arsenal move, but Chelsea would rather sell to PSG for £11m. They would, however, consider selling to Arsenal in a deal involving a home grown player moving the other way; specifically Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.

Chelsea interested in Sterling, but not willing to meet Liverpool's £50m valuation.

Offer made for Tevez from a Prem team, rumoured to be Liverpool (I think it said an offer had been made, rather than just interest declared).