Euro 2012

[pink_triangle]

The fact we could have beat the French last night, and we could have despite barely having a kick at times, shows that maybe they aren't the absolute light years ahead of us some were saying.

[pink_triangle]

The fact we could have beat the French last night, and we could have despite barely having a kick at times, shows that maybe they aren't the absolute light years ahead of us some were saying.

[pink_triangle]

I'd rather see a team win with 'attractive' play than one by being workman-like and boring (even if it was to be England). If I was an Argentinian (for example), I'd take no pleasure in seeing 'my' team win by cheating

[eFestivals]

The point stands, winning counts more than anything...

only for people who work by the principle that winning at any cost is better than not winning at all. There's other people in the world, who have different principles.

I know that being principled confuses the hell out of you, so you've no basis with which to argue back.

[eFestivals]

Maybe in the end football is now truly just soulless mess.

it is, but only for those with no soul.

You know, like having no principles.

[eFestivals]

I suppose we are heading to the old lie "its the taking part that counts"...

For the players, I can understand them wanting to win at any cost.

But spectators are there to spectate, not play. So it comes down to whether a spectator gets their entertainment from watching something that entertains them, or from something far more shallow.

Edited June 12, 2012 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

For the players, I can understand them wanting to win at any cost.

But spectators are there to spectate, not play. So it comes down to whether a spectator gets their entertainment from watching something that entertains them, or from something far more shallow.

[strummer77]

This. Fuck pissing about with the ball, if we are just going end up losing, we don't have the skill set in the squad to do that kind of thing.

If you support a team, you want your team to win...so called "entertaining" football is good if you get and have the players to do that but ultimately pointless if you lose most of your matches. I am just as entertained watching a good bit of defensive football with an attack every now and again.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

Damir Skimona is taking charge of the Sweden England game. He has a history of not having a very long fuse, but his performance in the Denmark Netherlands game gives a few clues to his style.

Portugese referee in the middle for Spain Ireland, surprised that's allowed.

Bjorn Kuipers is in charge of Ukraine France. Arguably could hurt France. He had a mare in the Ireland Croatia game, continuously breaking up play, missing stone wall, and almost losing control. If France have a few decisions go against them, they could get frustrated, and could end up seriously affecting them.

Scotland finally make their debut tomorrow. Craig Thomson is referee for the Portugal game.

[eFestivals]

That is just a stupid comment. Its not shallow to want your team to win. What a jerk.

wanting your team to win and it winning isn't entertainment, it's something shallower than that.

Get it?

That's me saying something completely different to what I didn't say, which you have made up from what I said.

[eFestivals]

If Ireland went out on Thursday and tried to play attractive football against Spain we'd get hammered 10 nil. I'd rather we play dire defensive shite and go for a draw, Chelsea style.

We're going to get hammered either way but thats not the point.

For a team like Ireland, particularly when playing the best in the world, that's quite understandable.

But it wouldn't be the match which had entertained you, it would be the result that gave you the entertainment. Which is pretty much shouting "my dad is bigger than your dad" at the kid who's bigger than you.

Edited June 12, 2012 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

You just bore me now...

you're bored of making up bollocks from what I didn't say? Cool, 'bout time.

[thetime]

Not that essentially I really care, I just take a vague interest in England whilst Liverpool are on holiday. I just want to see a good tournament!

[fred quimby]

But it wouldn't be the match which had entertained you, it would be the result that gave you the entertainment. Which is pretty much shouting "my dad is bigger than your dad" at the kid who's bigger than you.

[eFestivals]

and why not. Bragging rights is part of it

Next you will sugeest no winners and medals for everyone who took part.

entertainment can be had by watching a defensive display and the tactics that are at play. Also if it is your side then it can be exciting and nail biting from either view. Yes we would all love free flowing showboating, but entertainment can be had from other forms of the game.

I guess it comes down to this: I love to see the game played well more than I love any team. So I guess I'm entertained by the game, while others are entertained by their team.

Which is a tribal thing. Shallow defo applies.

[thetime]

A common theme with most fans of the top teams.

[fred quimby]

Shallow defo applies.

[Ed209]

The football Italy played in that world cup was nothing like England played yesterday or Chelsea played in the European cup. They scored every game and averaged 1.7 goals per game which may not be amazing but I have seen worse. The performances from Pirlo were a joy to watch and their defence was a lot more cultured than parking the bus. Canavarros perfromances in the tournament were a joy to watch.

[pink_triangle]

Chelsea also scored every game and had a higher goals per game average, over twice as many games - to give them (reluctant) credit

[eFestivals]

Ultimately what is shallow is how you always need to feel like you are better than others... its kind of sad...

or perhaps, just perhaps, what is shallow is your ability to understand what I'm saying as opposed to what you think I'm saying?

[eFestivals]

Not really, but carry on.

I assume you would like judges at the end of the game to award points instead of winning by goals. which is fair enough.

I always find the shallowness of the supports at a game rather entertaining in it's self. Not a Liverpool fan but to stand in the kop with all those shallow supporters would be great. Horses for course I guess. Maybe it's an old working class thing you middle classes will not get.

have you borrowed Barry Fish's brain by any chance?

There's lots to entertain at a match, but the very reason for any of it is football. The tribalism can only have come after the football, thus making all of those other things something more shallow than the entertainment that is the football.

[eFestivals]

Boom! Right on the money.

and yet miles away from it.

But makes neil feel better about himself

like you making up bollocks because you can't understand what's being said?

[kaosmark2]

Anyone who is saying they would rather watch there team lose playing pretty football than watch there team win playing workman like football (or whatever you want to call it) is either taking the piss or hasn't had much experience of turning up at a ground Saturday after Saturday watching and supporting their team properly...

I think we have a lot of passive (arm chair) sky watchers these days who don't get involved with the clubs much past buying the shirt and a sky subscription. To those fans I can see how its all just about entertainment. Like I said though, those types traditionally are not the ones flying around to these tournaments.

[thetime]

I resent the implication that armchair sky watchers can't be real fans. I lived in Newcastle for most of my childhood years, and my parents decided to move south. I go to the pub whenever we're on there, and stream when we're not. I try and get to away games such as Swansea/ Portsmouth/ WBA/ Fulham. I'm very much an armchair supporter but I can't either financially or time-wise travel the 300 miles up every weekend.

And despite being a passive, armchair supporter with a local pub and a shirt, I bid for tickets to go to Poland with no intention of seeing an England game, just hoping to get some entertaining ones to go as a neutral to. Failed to get any, but I was very psyched to spend 10 days in Poland watching a variety of football matches, etc. Gutted I missed out.

Now tell me I'm not a real football fan.

[eFestivals]

There's two types of "fan" anyway.

And those are "fooball fan" and "fan of a particular club" - with everything in between those two extremes.

A football fan wants to see football that entertains them. A club fan wants their team to win. There's a big difference between those extremes as to how they appreciate what they watch.