Time to resurrect Rock Against Racism?

[The Nal]

 

[Cornelius_Fudge]

10 minutes ago, The Nal said:

 

I wish I'd found this video a long time ago.

People just choose to see what they want and spin it for all kinds of agenda

Edited November 22, 2016 by Cornelius_Fudge

[waterfalls212434]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yep, but as far as Americans within America are concerned - or any countrymen within any country - their safety as citizens is a higher priority than outsiders who have no rights to come into the country.

It's then all down to a consideration of whether the benefits make the measure worthwhile.

if you think that's unreasonable, I guess your house is open to all-comers and not just those you already know and trust.

depends on the terms...my house is certainly open to my family for example....so would any such ban include family members of Muslims already in the us?

Also being Muslim doesn't make it more likely any stranger I did let into my house would cause problems so although yes I wouldst be happy with a random stranger coming in......it wouldn't be because of their faith because that`s utterly stupid.

That`s the essence of why people would oppose such a ban if one was put in place (and im not saying it will) because there would be no `just` reasoning for it, there is no evidence Muslims are more likely to cause problems in the us then any other group.

 

[waterfalls212434]

4 minutes ago, Cornelius_Fudge said:

I wish I'd found this video a long time ago.

People just choose to see what they want and spin it for all kinds of agenda

Like the person behind that channel....in other words....Look at his `other` videos he posts, attacks on immigrants, muslims, pro trump videos......hardly unbiased is he now?  

[Zoo Music Girl]

26 minutes ago, Cornelius_Fudge said:

Are you not going to do the polite thing and answer too?

Sorry, I didn't realise you'd asked me a question. Was it "Why make special allowances?" For me I don't think it's acceptable for political candidates to mock minorities particularly when they are in a position of power and I do consider it bullying, of people who already face discrimination. You don't so we disagree on that. I'm not denying him his freedom of speech either, just saying I personally find it abhorrent and will judge him on that, as is my right.

[Cornelius_Fudge]

4 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Sorry, I didn't realise you'd asked me a question. Was it "Why make special allowances?" For me I don't think it's acceptable for political candidates to mock minorities particularly when they are in a position of power and I do consider it bullying, of people who already face discrimination. You don't so we disagree on that. I'm not denying him his freedom of speech either, just saying I personally find it abhorrent and will judge him on that, as is my right.

That would have been the question, yes.

Perhaps you should watch the video that theNal posted above.

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, Cornelius_Fudge said:

That would have been the question, yes.

Perhaps you should watch the video that theNal posted above.

 

I was talking more generally about what you considered to be bullying but thanks.

[Cornelius_Fudge]

10 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Like the person behind that channel....in other words....Look at his `other` videos he posts, attacks on immigrants, muslims, pro trump videos......hardly unbiased is he now?  

Just because I defend someones right to make a joke, doesn't mean I agree with everything he says, or find it funny.

I never said the guy was bias or not, but it explains what I've been saying for a while, that Trump has made other impressions of people and they were always samey.

[Cornelius_Fudge]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

I was talking more generally about what you considered to be bullying but thanks.

Okay.

Do you think it's okay for people around the world to mock British accents and assume everyone drinks tea?

Or do you think it's okay for the Simpsons to mock people who are blind or deaf?

[Cornelius_Fudge]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069469

[Zoo Music Girl]

I was talking about political candidates particularly. I think the context makes it different to comedy as a whole, but you've already argued this point with others so I've not much to add.

[Alex DeLarge]

22 minutes ago, Cornelius_Fudge said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069469

Amazing! Credit where credit is due to Trump, more of this please. 

[Cornelius_Fudge]

9 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I was talking about political candidates particularly. I think the context makes it different to comedy as a whole, but you've already argued this point with others so I've not much to add.

I agree it's different but only because he's a TV personality/politician and he should know better than anyone how the media or others will blow it out of proportion. At least he came out and owned the situation and explained it.

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Like the person behind that channel....in other words....Look at his `other` videos he posts, attacks on immigrants, muslims, pro trump videos......hardly unbiased is he now?  

Of course he's not unbiased. But that video is pretty damn water tight. And something I didn't know - had taken at face value from the other side. I don't see any way that video can be missing context that somehow makes it mean something else.

[DeanoL]

Having watched 14 series of the US Apprentice before Trump decided he wanted to be President, for what it's worth I don't think he's racist at all. And I do think he is pretty sexist.

The reality of "build a wall" and "ban Muslims" I think comes from the fact that he's a pragmatist that doesn't think things through. Like Neil said, banning Muslims would reduce the threat of Islamic terrorism. But it'd have many, many downsides and would be near impossible to enforce. Just like banning women would reduce the amount of breast cancer. It's logically correct, and you can sell that simple logic to people that are desperate for a simple answer, but it falls apart under any scrutiny.

And that's kind of my worry with Trump. I don't think he's saying "ban Muslims" because he hates them. I think he's saying it as he thought it was actually a viable option, and the only reason other Presidents hadn't done it was because they didn't want to upset Muslims. Likewise "build a wall" - I think he thought that could and genuinely thought he could get Mexico to pay for it. And that it would solve the problem.

[zahidf]

That video is rubbish. He met the reporter before, knew he was disabled. 

in other news:

 

[zahidf]

This sounds familiar...

 

[priest17]

Didn't realise the This morning thread had sneakily changed names...

 

[Alex DeLarge]

Shall we get the thread back on topic?

I can't imagine artists being part of a movement now that discourages racism, because I genuinely can't think of many popular musicians from this generation who are openly racist. Iggy Azeala was crucified by the hip-hop community for acting like a stereotypical black rapper who had come from poverty when she was a Middle-Class white Australian girl.

Artists can communicate their views with their fans more openly than before now with Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr, Reddit and all that shite, Rock Against Racism was important as many young, impressionable rock fans were in danger of falling into the hands of nationalism with influence from the NF.  Young people have moved on from rock music and what they're listening to now is already anti-racist, I fear creating a group for them would lead to criticism from all sides.

[waterfalls212434]

8 hours ago, Alex DeLarge said:

Amazing! Credit where credit is due to Trump, more of this please. 

Yeah amazing!....that it took this long? Why didn't he come out and say that before the election? Happy to have their votes more then likely....also given this if he really intends to stick to it I guess he's going to fire Steve banning? Who remember is a self proclaimed proud member of the alt right! Sorry but this smacks of a statement he was 'told' to make by his pr team to try and end the bad pr. If he truly felt this way  he'd have disavowed them long ago 

[eFestivals]

13 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

depends on the terms...my house is certainly open to my family for example....so would any such ban include family members of Muslims already in the us?

Also being Muslim doesn't make it more likely any stranger I did let into my house would cause problems so although yes I wouldst be happy with a random stranger coming in......it wouldn't be because of their faith because that`s utterly stupid.

That`s the essence of why people would oppose such a ban if one was put in place (and im not saying it will) because there would be no `just` reasoning for it, there is no evidence Muslims are more likely to cause problems in the us then any other group.

 

without meaning to be rude ... PMSL. :lol:

Lots of bollocks there, to avoid you having to admit that you don't leave your house unlocked and open to anyone who might want to wander in. 

You protect your home to protect you and yours within it. It's *exactly* the point of border controls, and the citizens of a country are allowed to introduce the measures they feel are suitable to give them the protection they feel they need.

(we can argue about how justified their fears are of course, tho I bet plenty of those who might like to argue that line are the same people who say people have a right to feel terrified by Trump ... but not by terrorism, it might seem )

[zahidf]

 

[clarkete]

14 hours ago, Cornelius_Fudge said:

Alex Baldwin did a great mocking impression of Trump once. 

Indeed,  he wasn't very happy about it either, considering it's a lot less personal and insensitive than some of his mockery. 

It's almost like he's a narcissistic hypocrite. 

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, Alex DeLarge said:

Shall we get the thread back on topic?

I can't imagine artists being part of a movement now that discourages racism, because I genuinely can't think of many popular musicians from this generation who are openly racist. 

back at the time of the original RAR, nothing about it was because of racism within music (tho there was an amount of it, just as there is today [tho lesser today]).

It was about confronting the racism within society, at a time of the rise of the National Front. Full-on and clear political racism. "Send them 'home'".

This is where it falls down today. There's no rise in a political racist agenda, in fact it's gone the other way and just like what happened a few years after RAR when the NF fell apart, it's smaller replacement of the BNP has fallen apart.

A small and time-limited rise of a few existing racists feeling emboldened isn't anything like the same thing as back then.

What's happened around racism over the last 40 years has been absolutely massive, it's one of the truly heartening things during my lifetime. There's still much to do of course, but the direction of travel is still going in the right direction.

Where that risks a reverse is by mental confusion about 'what is racism', and the problems with recognising what is racism exists today within the non-racists just as much as an oldie with 'heritage racism' might not recognise what it is they do.

What i'm referring to here is immigration - where to want it better-controlled is not (in itself) racist, yet many want to label those who want better controls as simply racist. It risks driving them into the hands of the real racists, where the problem will then grow.

[zahidf]

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/801147316296159232