Kneecap

[Levitz]

23 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Right. Because there are questions of antisemitism.

The right to protest does extend to everyone, but I assume if some band that were due to play started spouting far right hate speech about migrants or minorities or whatever they might get pulled?

(hoping Matty Healy does this).

There are only questions about anti semitism if you conflate Israel with Jews, as the Israeli government and fundamentalist Christian Zionists try to do (which is itself antisemitic), or hold Jews responsible for the actions of Israel. They didn't do that. 

[Alvoram]

21 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Right. Because there are questions of antisemitism.

The right to protest does extend to everyone, but I assume if some band that were due to play started spouting far right hate speech about migrants or minorities or whatever they might get pulled?

(hoping Matty Healy does this).

Yep, fair point, there are 'lines' but they are drawn according to common decency. 

I don't think I've seen any suggestion that Kneecap are antisemitic, anywhere outside of this thread. To disagree with the state policies of Israel, or the military action that Israel are taking, does not, automatically, make you antisemitic. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 minute ago, Alvoram said:

I don't think I've seen any suggestion that Kneecap are antisemitic, anywhere outside of this thread. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/25/kneecap-belfast-ireland-anti-semitism/

 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

Yep, fair point, there are 'lines' but they are drawn according to common decency. 

I don't think I've seen any suggestion that Kneecap are antisemitic, anywhere outside of this thread. To disagree with the state policies of Israel, or the military action that Israel are taking, does not, automatically, make you antisemitic. 

I meant with the whole Corbyn thing.

[Alvoram]

1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/25/kneecap-belfast-ireland-anti-semitism/

 

Wow

Fair enough. Can't read it but the headline is enough. 

Have they done anything other than protest and raise awareness for Palestine, that 'could' even be interpreted as anti-semitism?

And that is not why anybody has suggested they be pulled from Glastonbury is it? It's the MP and Hamas quotes that have led those calls isn't it? 

 

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I meant with the whole Corbyn thing.

Sorry, then yeh, the whole common decency thing. 

[steviewevie]

Kneecap row reveals the limits of band's 'cartoonish ­activism'

[CaledonianGonzo]

18 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

Wow

Fair enough. Can't read it but the headline is enough. 

Have they done anything other than protest and raise awareness for Palestine, that 'could' even be interpreted as anti-semitism?

 

More or less anyone who's spoken up for the Palestinians has probably been accused of antisemitism at some point.  It's a standard and automatic tactic - albeit one that thankfully seems to be coming less and less effective.

 

 

 

[Alvoram]

46 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Kneecap row reveals the limits of band's 'cartoonish ­activism'

 

Quote

The truly dangerous part of this episode is the politicians choosing to appoint themselves as censors.

👏👏👏

[Toilet Duck]

37 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

Wow

Fair enough. Can't read it but the headline is enough. 

Have they done anything other than protest and raise awareness for Palestine, that 'could' even be interpreted as anti-semitism?

And that is not why anybody has suggested they be pulled from Glastonbury is it? It's the MP and Hamas quotes that have led those calls isn't it? 

That’s pretty much Israeli government anti-Irish sentiment 101. Constantly spouted, with lies presented as fact repeatedly. Anti-Jewish sentiment in Ireland is practically non-existent. However, opposition to the actions of the IDF and the Israeli government is strong and almost universal…ie, not a left/right/liberal thing, but instead borne of an understanding of the desire to have a homeland…exactly the same thing that meant Ireland was very supportive of the creation of the state of Israel in the first place…Chaim Herzog (6th President of Israel) was born in Ireland, his father Yitzhak was chief rabbi of Ireland…his son is the current president of Israel. Irish-Israeli ties used to be strong (and the struggle to re-establish Hebrew was seen to mirror efforts to revitalise the Irish language)…1967 changed that as we get a bit touchy about taking land (not getting into centuries old arguments about who rightfully owns it, but clearly everyone in the region deserves somewhere to live in peace, Palestinian or Israeli). Humanitarian catastrophe (however it is caused) is also something that hits close to home in Ireland. Being labelled (libelled?) repeatedly as anti-semites for supporting the oppressed won’t stop us though.

 

fwiw, imo kneecap’s comments about killing MPs were moronic and they’ve rightly been called on it (I can kind of understand the hamas/hezbollah comments, ill advised as they were, as proclaiming support for proscribed organisations is commonplace in Ireland, conveniently ignoring their atrocities in a defiant declaration of support for the ideal…still think it was idiotic as well though). Maybe they’ll be a bit more careful in future as their profile grows and they realise that their messaging gets lost if they don’t deliver it effectively. Still think they should play though (I’ll be elsewhere as they do nothing for me musically). 

[Colorblindjames]

40 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

More or less anyone who's spoken up for the Palestinians has probably been accused of antisemitism at some point.  It's a standard and automatic tactic - albeit one that thankfully seems to be coming less and less effective.

 

 

 

It really is a badge of honour now. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

1 hour ago, Toilet Duck said:

That’s pretty much Israeli government anti-Irish sentiment 101. Constantly spouted, with lies presented as fact repeatedly. Anti-Jewish sentiment in Ireland is practically non-existent. However, opposition to the actions of the IDF and the Israeli government is strong and almost universal…ie, not a left/right/liberal thing, but instead borne of an understanding of the desire to have a homeland…exactly the same thing that meant Ireland was very supportive of the creation of the state of Israel in the first place…Chaim Herzog (6th President of Israel) was born in Ireland, his father Yitzhak was chief rabbi of Ireland…his son is the current president of Israel. Irish-Israeli ties used to be strong (and the struggle to re-establish Hebrew was seen to mirror efforts to revitalise the Irish language)…1967 changed that as we get a bit touchy about taking land (not getting into centuries old arguments about who rightfully owns it, but clearly everyone in the region deserves somewhere to live in peace, Palestinian or Israeli). Humanitarian catastrophe (however it is caused) is also something that hits close to home in Ireland. Being labelled (libelled?) repeatedly as anti-semites for supporting the oppressed won’t stop us though.

 

fwiw, imo kneecap’s comments about killing MPs were moronic and they’ve rightly been called on it (I can kind of understand the hamas/hezbollah comments, ill advised as they were, as proclaiming support for proscribed organisations is commonplace in Ireland, conveniently ignoring their atrocities in a defiant declaration of support for the ideal…still think it was idiotic as well though). Maybe they’ll be a bit more careful in future as their profile grows and they realise that their messaging gets lost if they don’t deliver it effectively. Still think they should play though (I’ll be elsewhere as they do nothing for me musically). 

Totally agree with your post, some interesting historical background there. Like you I still think they should play, get it confirmed now and prevent the whole thing overshadowing the event. Though it won’t stop some of the press faux outrage.

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, Toilet Duck said:

That’s pretty much Israeli government anti-Irish sentiment 101. Constantly spouted, with lies presented as fact repeatedly. Anti-Jewish sentiment in Ireland is practically non-existent. However, opposition to the actions of the IDF and the Israeli government is strong and almost universal…ie, not a left/right/liberal thing, but instead borne of an understanding of the desire to have a homeland…exactly the same thing that meant Ireland was very supportive of the creation of the state of Israel in the first place…Chaim Herzog (6th President of Israel) was born in Ireland, his father Yitzhak was chief rabbi of Ireland…his son is the current president of Israel. Irish-Israeli ties used to be strong (and the struggle to re-establish Hebrew was seen to mirror efforts to revitalise the Irish language)…1967 changed that as we get a bit touchy about taking land (not getting into centuries old arguments about who rightfully owns it, but clearly everyone in the region deserves somewhere to live in peace, Palestinian or Israeli). Humanitarian catastrophe (however it is caused) is also something that hits close to home in Ireland. Being labelled (libelled?) repeatedly as anti-semites for supporting the oppressed won’t stop us though.

 

fwiw, imo kneecap’s comments about killing MPs were moronic and they’ve rightly been called on it (I can kind of understand the hamas/hezbollah comments, ill advised as they were, as proclaiming support for proscribed organisations is commonplace in Ireland, conveniently ignoring their atrocities in a defiant declaration of support for the ideal…still think it was idiotic as well though). Maybe they’ll be a bit more careful in future as their profile grows and they realise that their messaging gets lost if they don’t deliver it effectively. Still think they should play though (I’ll be elsewhere as they do nothing for me musically). 

Interesting about Irish support for zionism. It was generally supported by global left too, soviet union supporting creation of Israel etc...and in late 60s after that 6 day war plus setting up of PLO and emergence of Arafat that all started to change, soviet union changed its view and left became less concerned by class war and more about race and colonialism and the Palestinian cause. US support started to grow around this time, and Likud started to win power.

Edited May 4, 2025 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

3 hours ago, Alvoram said:

Yep, fair point, there are 'lines' but they are drawn according to common decency. 

I don't think I've seen any suggestion that Kneecap are antisemitic, anywhere outside of this thread. To disagree with the state policies of Israel, or the military action that Israel are taking, does not, automatically, make you antisemitic. 

See that common decency bit...kill your MP and Up Hamas?

But whatever.

[clarkete]

7 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/25/kneecap-belfast-ireland-anti-semitism/

 

 

He sounds like a right bellend though tbh, plus he writes for them

https://muckrack.com/geochesterton/articles

[Alvoram]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

See that common decency bit...kill your MP and Up Hamas?

But whatever.

If these things were something the lads say regularly, or even recently, then maybe. But they're ancient history at this point, everybody has things in their past they wish they hadn't done or said. These quotes have just resurfaced after a long time, and the reason they've resurfaced is potentially dubious.

What they said was bloody stupid, there's no sugar coating that. But it is being taken out of context and blown out of all proportion, for the reasons already discussed heavily in here. 

At this point, if they were to be taken off the lineup, it will absolutely be considered by most people as an attempt to further silence them, remove their platform and put an end to their activism. Something which goes against the very spirit of the festival. I just can't see it happening. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

If these things were something the lads say regularly, or even recently, then maybe. But they're ancient history at this point, everybody has things in their past they wish they hadn't done or said. These quotes have just resurfaced after a long time, and the reason they've resurfaced is potentially dubious.

What they said was bloody stupid, there's no sugar coating that. But it is being taken out of context and blown out of all proportion, for the reasons already discussed heavily in here. 

At this point, if they were to be taken off the lineup, it will absolutely be considered by most people as an attempt to further silence them, remove their platform and put an end to their activism. Something which goes against the very spirit of the festival. I just can't see it happening. 

yeah...ok...I mean I get people say stupid things...and I get they apologised...but the whole taken out of context thing, I don't know...you say kill your MP or you don't, and you say Up Hamas or you don't.

Basically they are being forgiven because the greater evil is Israel.

 

[Superscally]

7 hours ago, Levitz said:

There are only questions about anti semitism if you conflate Israel with Jews, as the Israeli government and fundamentalist Christian Zionists try to do (which is itself antisemitic), or hold Jews responsible for the actions of Israel. They didn't do that. 

Jews. Sound. As long as they're a sound human being, i.e. 99+%

Israel. Great idea. Badly implemented. Overstepped. Currently committing genocide after a hugely over forceful response to a despicable act. 

 

Am I right?

[Spindles]

1 hour ago, Superscally said:

Israel. Great idea. Badly implemented. Overstepped. Currently committing genocide after a hugely over forceful response to a despicable act. 

That, at least to me, seems like a reasonable summation.  There IS a genocide happening, the whole world should be able to see that, 2 wrongs do not make a right.

[Ben7amin_]

I read the other day that a filmmaker called Haim Bresheeth who is a Israely,  Jewish and the son of a holocaust survivor was arrested for protesting in favour of Palastine. 

 

I imagine he probably get called an anti-semite now.......... 

 

.

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2025 by Ben7amin_

[Colorblindjames]

6 hours ago, steviewevie said:

See that common decency bit...kill your MP and Up Hamas?

But whatever.

The kill your mp stuff seems fine depending on who says it though. Kill children seems completely fine for UK MPs. 

[Alvoram]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...ok...I mean I get people say stupid things...and I get they apologised...but the whole taken out of context thing, I don't know...you say kill your MP or you don't, and you say Up Hamas or you don't.

Basically they are being forgiven because the greater evil is Israel.

 

It's hard to deny that to be honest. 🤷‍♂️ It's probably got some truth to it. 

When I said taken out of context, it was not to deny that the 'something' didn't happen or wasn't said. They absolutely did say those things, I've seen the video. The MP thing is being taken out of context, as an example, because there's an implication in much of the reporting, that they said these things with the intention of inspiring somebody to actually carry out the acts. Much of the reporting completely misses out the words of protest he spoke before that, and instead begins the quote from "The only good Tory." Thus missing much of the context. They in fact said it to emphasise a hatred for a particular political party's policies, and what they deem to be an injustice in that (in their words) "old men in London are still making decisions that directly affect the lives of young people in Ireland, and worse still they're Tories." That's the context, it wasn't a realistic suggestion that anybody carries out the act.

That being said, it was stupid beyond belief... Regardless of intention, some people are very impressionable, for many reasons, including mental health, and they need to be mindful of the things they say, and always assume that they'll be taken literally. Not only that, but it was insensitive to the families of people affected by acts like the one they suggested in the past. The cherry on top of this stupidity pie is that he'd made the point already, and made it bloody well too, he really didn't even need to add that last sentence at all. 

Edited May 4, 2025 by Alvoram

[Colorblindjames]

2 hours ago, Superscally said:

Jews. Sound. As long as they're a sound human being, i.e. 99+%

Israel. Great idea. Badly implemented. Overstepped. Currently committing genocide after a hugely over forceful response to a despicable act. 

 

Am I right?

Israel was a truly awful idea. 

[Colorblindjames]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...ok...I mean I get people say stupid things...and I get they apologised...but the whole taken out of context thing, I don't know...you say kill your MP or you don't, and you say Up Hamas or you don't.

Basically they are being forgiven because the greater evil is Israel.

 

Yea imagine treating a rap band saying hurty words differently from a country deliberately blowing children to bits. Weird. 

[clarkete]

Something they said two years ago and since apologised for now discussed for 32 pages. 

 

Can we get on with looking forward to them and the Bobs yet? 

[TheDayman]

5 hours ago, steviewevie said:

don't know...you say kill your MP or you don't, and you say Up Hamas or you don't.

Basically they are being forgiven because the greater evil is Israel.

Honestly, right now, can anyone really argue Israel isn’t a greater evil than Hamas right now?

 

(Hamas obviously being absolutely awful)