UK Politics

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

No, he's going beyond the Cass report. Even that didn't recommend an actual ban. This is more extreme.

 

But, and I want to make clear, the Cass Report's complaint about "insufficient evidence" was that there hadn't been "double-blind trials" conducted on trans healthcare. Do you understand what a double-blind trial means? It means that neither the patient or doctor can be aware of whether they're getting actual treatment or a placebo. But guess what, humans are smart enough to realise that if their skin changes, their voice deepens, and they grow body hair, that they're on testosterone, and that if their skin softens, and they grow breasts, they're on oestrogen. As are their doctors. And certainly, surgeons performing gender reassignment surgery are aware if they're doing it.

 

This isn't a "both sides are citing different evidence" issue. This is one side stacking up an entire weight of mass evidence, and the other side going "no, we don't like that evidence". It's akin to climate deniers going "but there's been temperature shifts before, show that without human activity it would've risen less". 

 

Streeting isn't both-sides-ing this issue. He has taken the stance of attacks. He's aligned with Braverman, Putin and the right-wing end of the Republican Party. He's to the right of Badenoch, Hunt, Bush, hell, he's to the right of f**king Modi. He's not being reasonable here.

whatever

[lazyred]

11 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I advise anyone who listens to a word that comes out of Streeting's mouth to google two things:

firstly "cass report yale critique"

secondly: "right wing licksplittle c**t"

The campaign against the Cass review has started again I see. Stonewall et al tried to trash it before publication and had to back down. None of the criticisms have stood up. The Scottish Govt review of the Cass report has just reported and supports its conclusions.

The Cass review looked at properly conducted scientific papers and concluded  there is no evidence to support puberty blockers for gender dysphoria in children. It asked for a proper study which I believe is being set up. Why are you afraid of collecting the evidence before recommending a treatment?

 

[kaosmark2]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and by vitriol I mean the silly sh*t like calling Streeting transphobic (or hating queers which is kind of wtf) or from the other side anyone supporting trans rights hating women or if they're a labour MP they support genocide or if they are for a ceasefire they're antisemitic. So much stupid sh*t gets thrown around, everyone shouting at each other or worse, whilst some people are actually just trying to find a way through and sort it out .

Streeting's actions and words have been transphobic. He's also said that Alan Sugar should be allowed to call his workers "a chain of puffs coming through the boardroom".

 

The stuff about genocide/antisemitic and using those lines has largely got extreme.

 

I do, in the vast majority of cases, think that Labour MPs are trying to do positive things for people, and trying to find a sensible balance. Streeting is one of a very few exceptions.

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, lazyred said:

The campaign against the Cass review has started again I see. Stonewall et al tried to trash it before publication and had to back down. None of the criticisms have stood up. The Scottish Govt review of the Cass report has just reported and supports its conclusions.

The Cass review looked at properly conducted scientific papers and concluded  there is no evidence to support puberty blockers for gender dysphoria in children. It asked for a proper study which I believe is being set up. Why are you afraid of collecting the evidence before recommending a treatment?

Trans kids are committing suicide while unreasonable demands for double blind trials (which couldn't happen) are being made:

 

10 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

No, he's going beyond the Cass report. Even that didn't recommend an actual ban. This is more extreme.

 

But, and I want to make clear, the Cass Report's complaint about "insufficient evidence" was that there hadn't been "double-blind trials" conducted on trans healthcare. Do you understand what a double-blind trial means? It means that neither the patient or doctor can be aware of whether they're getting actual treatment or a placebo. But guess what, humans are smart enough to realise that if their skin changes, their voice deepens, and they grow body hair, that they're on testosterone, and that if their skin softens, and they grow breasts, they're on oestrogen. As are their doctors. And certainly, surgeons performing gender reassignment surgery are aware if they're doing it.

 

This isn't a "both sides are citing different evidence" issue. This is one side stacking up an entire weight of mass evidence, and the other side going "no, we don't like that evidence". It's akin to climate deniers going "but there's been temperature shifts before, show that without human activity it would've risen less". 

 

Streeting isn't both-sides-ing this issue. He has taken the stance of attacks. He's aligned with Braverman, Putin and the right-wing end of the Republican Party. He's to the right of Badenoch, Hunt, Bush, hell, he's to the right of f**king Modi. He's not being reasonable here.

 

35 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I mean, I don't think it's conspiratorial. He will meet people who spend their entire time online attacking a marginalised group, just because they're a billionaire, meanwhile he refuses to listen to trans people. His recommendations go far far beyond what the Cass Report (which has now been discredited by legal and medical researchers at Yale, even though most of us knew it was BS at time of release).

https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/integrity-project_cass-response.pdf

 

You can also see a bunch of criticism/fears from a prominent UK rights lawyer:

https://x.com/JolyonMaugham

 

And these decisions have led to a rise in teen suicides which the NHS tried to suppress:

https://goodlawproject.org/rise-of-deaths-young-trans-people/

 

And Dr Rosena Allin-Khan, a literal practicing doctor and Labour MP, and one of the only Labour MPs who had a massively increased vote count in the election, has clashed with his support for the private health sector:

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/labour-reshuffle-keir-starmer-yes-men-2592540?ico=best_of_opinion

 

I'm not linking to weird minor sources here. I'm linking to Yale University, the (founder of ) Good Law Project, and the Independent.

 

If he stops showing vitriol for people in this country, I'll stop showing him vitriol. But so far he's shown himself to be politically to the right of Theresa May on queer rights, and on social care.

 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, lazyred said:

The campaign against the Cass review has started again I see. Stonewall et al tried to trash it before publication and had to back down. None of the criticisms have stood up. The Scottish Govt review of the Cass report has just reported and supports its conclusions.

The Cass review looked at properly conducted scientific papers and concluded  there is no evidence to support puberty blockers for gender dysphoria in children. It asked for a proper study which I believe is being set up. Why are you afraid of collecting the evidence before recommending a treatment?

 

aren't the Yale researchers part of the group that was mentioned in Cass as providing insufficient evidence.

 

All Streeting is calling for is wait for more evidence that blocking hormones during adolescence doesn't lead to all sorts of physiological and psychological problems for that person in the future.

[steviewevie]

..and as far as I know Cass was saying that maybe need a more holistic approach instead of just going straight for the meds.

[lazyred]

23 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Trans kids are committing suicide while unreasonable demands for double blind trials (which couldn't happen) are being made:

 

 

 

Final Cass Report Summary page 33 section 86:

86. It has been suggested that hormone
treatment reduces the elevated risk of death
by suicide in this population, but the evidence
found did not support this conclusion

 

Hilary Cass is the former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. Her critics are well known trans activists. Who to believe?

[lazyred]

43 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

But, and I want to make clear, the Cass Report's complaint about "insufficient evidence" was that there hadn't been "double-blind trials" conducted on trans healthcare.

Not true, read the report.

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Final Cass Report Summary page 33 section 86:

86. It has been suggested that hormone
treatment reduces the elevated risk of death
by suicide in this population, but the evidence
found did not support this conclusion

 

Hilary Cass is the former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. Her critics are well known trans activists. Who to believe?

Once again, "the evidence found" was based on dismissing evidence that didn't use double-blind trials. There's a wealth of evidence shown and recommended both internationally and in the UK that was ignored by the Cass report, and stated as ignored in it.

 

But, this isn't going to get anywhere, you're going to dismiss me and anyone whose evidence or report I cite as a "trans activist", and I'm going to dismiss the only source you have because it's been discredited by so many respected institutes.

[steviewevie]

Gething stepping down 

[lazyred]

Just now, kaosmark2 said:

Once again, "the evidence found" was based on dismissing evidence that didn't use double-blind trials. There's a wealth of evidence shown and recommended both internationally and in the UK that was ignored by the Cass report, and stated as ignored in it.

 

But, this isn't going to get anywhere, you're going to dismiss me and anyone whose evidence or report I cite as a "trans activist", and I'm going to dismiss the only source you have because it's been discredited by so many respected institutes.

As before that is not true. Just read the report.

 

The Cass Report talks about the difficulties of assessing evidence when double blind trials are unavailable. They commissioned a team from York University to review all the evidence and it was ranked using an accepted methodology. The high and moderate ranked studies were given more consideration

 

 

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, lazyred said:

As before that is not true. Just read the report.

 

The Cass Report talks about the difficulties of assessing evidence when double blind trials are unavailable. They commissioned a team from York University to review all the evidence and it was ranked using an accepted methodology. The high and moderate ranked studies were given more consideration

 

 

don't have to read report...they did a FAQ thing to counter this stuff they were getting from stonewall etc

Final report – FAQs – Cass Review

[steviewevie]

 

[lazyred]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

don't have to read report...they did a FAQ thing to counter this stuff they were getting from stonewall etc

Final report – FAQs – Cass Review

Thanks, that makes it clear in a single page.

[MilkyJoe]

Edited July 16, 2024 by MilkyJoe

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, MilkyJoe said:

https://x.com/holte/status/1813161207538589916?s=46

top-tip...to embed tweet you have to paste in original, then edit x.com to twitter.com, then copy again, then delete, then paste in as text, say a few hail mary's and hey presto...

 

[MilkyJoe]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

top-tip...to embed tweet you have to paste in original, then edit x.com to twitter.com, then copy again, then delete, then paste in as text, say a few hail mary's and hey presto...

 

Ahh nice one buddy thank you. I’d changed it to Twitter but it didn’t work and thought it was easier just to post the general message. Didn’t realise I had to copy and paste again.👍🏼

[Crazyfool01]

Hopefully a forum upgrade in the not to distant future should sort that 

[steviewevie]

 

[zahidf]

"NEW: The governing body of the doctors’ union - the BMA - will vote tomorrow on a motion to ‘disavow’ the Cass Review into the care provided to gender-questioning children and young people.

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

"NEW: The governing body of the doctors’ union - the BMA - will vote tomorrow on a motion to ‘disavow’ the Cass Review into the care provided to gender-questioning children and young people.

Blimey. I guess I'll have to be on the government's side

[Neil]

10 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Thought we were supposed to do less conspiratorial vitriol now.

i reckon we should do more, if it gets trump shot again. 😛 

[Neil]

8 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

a year ago each of the four premiers where people of colour, now there's none.

[Neil]

6 hours ago, MilkyJoe said:

reminds me of ex-bristol_mayor marvin rees who always seemed to be jetting round the world at anyone's expense but his own - normally his favourite developer.

[clarkete]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

reminds me of ex-bristol_mayor marvin rees who always seemed to be jetting round the world at anyone's expense but his own - normally his favourite developer.

 

Rees reminds you of Farage? 

 

Bloody hell 🙄