UK Politics

[clarkete]

15 minutes ago, LJS said:

Thatcher destroyed vast swathes of British industry, laying waste to dozens of communities in the process. She glorified greed and staged an assault on any notion of social responsibility.

There's a lot of data here to support those conclusions...
https://academic.oup.com/cje/article/44/2/319/5550923?login=false

[Neil]

1 hour ago, clarkete said:

Let's not forget a few wealthy billionaires doing their utmost to influence many millions of voters....

lets not pretend that red robbo and scargill didn't influence at least as many voters.

[Ommadawn]

1 hour ago, clarkete said:

Let's not forget a few wealthy billionaires doing their utmost to influence many millions of voters....

 

 

I think that's rather fanciful to be honest. If people vote for who their favourite paper tells then to, then that's their problem and they deserve what thay get.

I think it was more due to people voting in line to how their parents votes. Thankfully, that's changed

[clarkete]

1 minute ago, Ommadawn said:

I think that's rather fanciful to be honest. If people vote for who their favourite paper tells then to, then that's their problem and they deserve what thay get.

I think it was more due to people voting in line to how their parents votes. Thankfully, that's changed

You really think that 4 million people reading something every day presenting a certain view of the world doesn't have any impact on their perspective?

Extraordinary.

[Ommadawn]

3 minutes ago, clarkete said:

There's a lot of data here to support those conclusions...
https://academic.oup.com/cje/article/44/2/319/5550923?login=false

But people still voted Conservative in their droves.

Mind you, the opposition wasn't up to much.

[Neil]

9 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Labour membership falls by 23,000 the more they become just like the Tories.

and green party membership is what?????and green members are like tory members having a pop at labour.

or in Bristol this week, arrested for theft - (hands in the till like a tory.)

Edited March 31 by Neil

[Ommadawn]

Just now, clarkete said:

You really think that 4 million people reading something every day presenting a certain view of the world doesn't have any impact on their perspective?

Extraordinary.

I think people are much less gullible than you may think. Like everyone else, I have a brain and can think for myself,

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, clarkete said:

You really think that 4 million people reading something every day presenting a certain view of the world doesn't have any impact on their perspective?

Extraordinary.

never underestimate the ability of labour's left to f**k thing up! i think reports each day on the news of another £50M to failing striking industries also had an impact, but people like to forget about that, vote corbyn!!!!

 

 

[Neil]

12 minutes ago, clarkete said:

You really think that 4 million people reading something every day presenting a certain view of the world doesn't have any impact on their perspective?

Extraordinary.

your guy has gone to help prop-up the new Murdoch, no one agrees with nick.

[Neil]

12 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I think people are much less gullible than you may think. Like everyone else, I have a brain and can think for myself,

wish the labour left had a brain and could think - the UK  would be quite different if it could.

[LJS]

47 minutes ago, Neil said:

those industries were f**ked which everyone knew who was paying attention, she chose to stop throwing huge amounts of money at them. thatcher just pulled the trigger on those f**ked industries. the 'miracle' was turning thing around from no jobs and no hope into something almost booming "loads of money"

She created the "no jobs and no hope"

[Neil]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

She created the "no jobs and no hope"

she inherited a country f**ked by the unions, and changes in the world around it, the uk was trying to adapt to changed trading terms due to the end of empire.

[LJS]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

she inherited a country f**ked by the unions, and changes in the world around it, the uk was trying to adapt to changed trading terms due to the end of empire.

Just out of curiosity, Neil, was that your view at the time? Or have you revised it with the "benefit" of hindsight?

Edited March 31 by LJS

[steviewevie]

Working classes down south switched to Tory in the 80s and the working classes up north switched to Tory in the 2010s. Labour is now trying to win both those back.

[Nobody Interesting]

8 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

I think that's rather fanciful to be honest. If people vote for who their favourite paper tells then to, then that's their problem and they deserve what thay get.

I think it was more due to people voting in line to how their parents votes. Thankfully, that's changed

You would be amazed how newspaper headlines do influence people.

I know many who quote these headlines as fact and will form their views based on them and in time simply believe any headline their chosen paper writes regardless of how false it is.

[Nobody Interesting]

New seat prediction poll out and based on the prediction for where I live I shall ignore it totally.

It predicts a Labour win where I am and Labour have been a poor third for a long time. It is Lib Dem or Tory who will win it.

Anyway, here is the poll which I personally think is very wrong.

https://www.bestforbritain.org/spring-2024-polling

[Ommadawn]

22 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

You would be amazed how newspaper headlines do influence people.

I know many who quote these headlines as fact and will form their views based on them and in time simply believe any headline their chosen paper writes regardless of how false it is.

Then you have a lower opinion of the ability of people to think for themselves than I do. I think Thatcher came to power because people (particularly housewives) could relate to what she was saying.  When Labour were banging on about GDP and potential trade deals etc, she brought out a basket of everyday food items and listed how much they had gone up. It struck a cord.
 

She was still an awful women though.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, Ommadawn said:

Then you have a lower opinion of the ability of people to think for themselves than I do. I think Thatcher came to power because people (particularly housewives) could relate to what she was saying.  When Labour were banging on about GDP and potential trade deals etc, she brought out a basket of everyday food items and listed how much they had gone up. It struck a cord.
 

She was still an awful women though.

Since 1979 people in general terms have lost so much ability to learn and think for themselves. 75% don't watch the news and most gain their little insights from simple social media posts (without reading the whole text).
Research has been done in the last few years to back it up - it was on Channel 4 news  a while back.

The other day I had the misfortune to be in the company of a housewife who spent pretty much the entire day quoting Daily Hate headlines as pure fact and when we discussed some matters she said 'well the paper says' and trusted that rather than statistics from the ONS.

She may only be one person but I have met many others like her and most people I know have no knowledge of the things we all discuss on here - and they don't care.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, LJS said:

Just out of curiosity, Neil, was that your view at the time? Or have you revised it with the "benefit" of hindsight?

Not sure I was aware of the global aspects back then. but I could see how strikes were effecting public support for nationalised industries.and I could see there was little point producing steel without customers for it. or shipyards without customers for ships.

 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

You would be amazed how newspaper headlines do influence people.

I know many who quote these headlines as fact and will form their views based on them and in time simply believe any headline their chosen paper writes regardless of how false it is.

Most people read the headlines but not the detail. Quite a few people here often reveal themselves as doing just that.

[Neil]

9 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

But people still voted Conservative in their droves.

Mind you, the opposition wasn't up to much.

Michael foot gave it to the Tories just like Corbyn supporters did

[lost]

I think New labour were inevitable following the Berlin wall coming down and the collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe. We had as much of a consensus we were going to get on the economic stuff and Labour were simply alligning themselves to other social democrat parties in the EU.

[Neil]

18 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Labour membership falls by 23,000 the more they become just like the Tories.

Did you read the article or just the headline? That's bigger membership than when Blair left office and there's no relationship between membership and electoral support (which is good news for the greens).

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

New seat prediction poll out and based on the prediction for where I live I shall ignore it totally.

It predicts a Labour win where I am and Labour have been a poor third for a long time. It is Lib Dem or Tory who will win it.

Anyway, here is the poll which I personally think is very wrong.

https://www.bestforbritain.org/spring-2024-polling

The modelling for MRP polls basically extrapolates national data with census data - ie translates how national votes go back into is it urban/rural, what groups do people identify as in an area (religion, ethnicity, etc), and tracks those.

They tend to be a little better on seat count, but sketchy for any specific seat.

Although I certainly hope they're right about Rees-Mogg's seat!

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

The modelling for MRP polls basically extrapolates national data with census data - ie translates how national votes go back into is it urban/rural, what groups do people identify as in an area (religion, ethnicity, etc), and tracks those.

They tend to be a little better on seat count, but sketchy for any specific seat.

Although I certainly hope they're right about Rees-Mogg's seat!

We can all hope that such fools finally get removed at the next election and that perhaps the electorate has learned it's lesson....................... hmmmmm

In other news, my stalker seems to be back again quoting everything I post with nonsensical comments and insults to me or family members.