UK Politics

[kaosmark2]

10 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Modern Politics:

1) Make a sweeping statement as 'fact'
2) When proof shown that said statement is wrong change what you said
3) When it becomes obvious to you that this will not work move the goal posts
4) When this also does not work start to get angry
5) When that does not work and people who show the facts that proved your original statement to be wrong, insults are the next weapon.

 

Imagine if the way politics happens so often was how people acted in the real or cyber world as well.

It really would be good if politicians could just admit they were wrong.

This is the way capitalism, advertising, and corporate contracts with ordinary people often work.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

as i pointed out i'm using WOS to undermine your previous arguments.

Using someone you consistently called a liar and who I never relied on to undermine my arguments may not be your strongest card.

1 hour ago, Neil said:

so do you think no one has been turned off scots governing the scots by the self indulgent ramming thru of unworkable* pro-trans laws.

I don't agree with your description but I am absolutely sure some folk will have been turned off indy by hatemongers like the Bishop of Bath. Not quite sure how this relates to my point (which of course you haven't addressed) that support for Indy has not reduced in line with support for the SNP.

1 hour ago, Neil said:

(* they've been proven as unworkable by scottish institutions not working to them.)

if you think no one has been turned off indie by those f**k ups, then you've got a very low opinion of your fellow scots.

See above.

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, LJS said:

Using someone you consistently called a liar and who I never relied on to undermine my arguments may not be your strongest card.

I don't agree with your description but I am absolutely sure some folk will have been turned off indy by hatemongers like the Bishop of Bath. Not quite sure how this relates to my point (which of course you haven't addressed) that support for Indy has not reduced in line with support for the SNP.

See above.

I didn't say it had reduced in line with the reduction of SNP support just that it's surely reduced because Scots don't like how Scots are governing them.

[fraybentos1]

2 hours ago, LJS said:

I am sure the few on here who were involved in the dirty independence debate will be as amused as I am that Neil is now using WOS to support his argument.

Incidentally, I believe in amongst his current odious nonsense, he still supports Scottish Independence. Do you now acknowledge that he is right about that?

Or is he only right when he agrees with you?

 

I think we both know why Neil now likes wings but explicitly saying it will probs get me banned… but I’m sure you know 

[fraybentos1]

54 minutes ago, LJS said:

Using someone you consistently called a liar and who I never relied on to undermine my arguments may not be your strongest card.

I don't agree with your description but I am absolutely sure some folk will have been turned off indy by hatemongers like the Bishop of Bath. Not quite sure how this relates to my point (which of course you haven't addressed) that support for Indy has not reduced in line with support for the SNP.

See above.

It’s mad how I can disagree with you so much re snp and Indy yet we can both see clearly that he is talking so much pish 😂

[fraybentos1]

47 minutes ago, Neil said:

I didn't say it had reduced in line with the reduction of SNP support just that it's surely reduced because Scots don't like how Scots are governing them.

Look at the polls I sent you, then look at snp support over the same period. Then think really hard. Like as hard as you can. Then come back and see if what you’re saying makes sense. 

[LJS]

36 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It’s mad how I can disagree with you so much re snp and Indy yet we can both see clearly that he is talking so much pish 😂

Unlike some, I have no issues with folk who disagree with me. We are all entitled to our opinions. 

[Neil]

13 minutes ago, LJS said:

Unlike some, I have no issues with folk who disagree with me. We are all entitled to our opinions. 

i'm not talking piss in saying that recent moves by the snp and scottish greens has disillusioned many indie supporters on being governed by scots, i've read it from people better  connected to indie than all of us here.

 

[Neil]

51 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Look at the polls I sent you, then look at snp support over the same period. Then think really hard. Like as hard as you can. Then come back and see if what you’re saying makes sense. 

i've thought really hard and decided that i'm not jumping to yourrequest.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Nobody Interesting said:

It is popular with a certain type of voter - Reform ones for example, and is simply to try and get those votes back (like the Brexit Ref was with UKIP).
It might even be in their manifesto.

Yep but no time in this parliament to get it through is what I meant 

[steviewevie]

43 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

If they wanted to try there is time I am afraid - and it would show a big dividing line between Labour and them which Sunak and co would hope would alienate the Red Wall voters from Labour.

I really think it is a card of desperation but one they might well play especially if Reform keeps going up in the polls.

think they would struggle, too much opposition in parliament and the lords and with the public, but they could put it in their manifesto, maybe with a referendum.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Agree they would struggle but that is why it is a good weapon for them to regain Reform and Red Wall voters who dislike immigrants. Loads of headlines, loads of publicity and loads of blaming Labour for the failure to fly to Rwanda...... and the Scum and Daily Hate today show that this is easy for them to get and the word used to describe the ECHR - the EURO court.

Sadly loads of people think the ECHR is to do with the EU and have no idea what it actually gives every one of us.

yes, or call it a foreign court which is what Sunak and co do, as opposed to an international court which we have signed up to.

[steviewevie]

But I think this would be too divisive within Tory party and government itself...Cameron for example would not support, not sure about likes of Gove, Mordaunt, Cleverly etc.

[steviewevie]

once upon a time they'd have stuff like this on tv

 

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Last week Labour said they would be having a full review of the Conservative Childcare plans and would, after that, implement the best for all.

Yesterday Labour changed their mind and now "Labour commits to full Tory childcare expansion plan".

Shadow education minister Bridget Phillipson has said Labour will not remove any entitlements promised to families "in the future".

Full story here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68723552

isn't that a good thing?

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

But I think this would be too divisive within Tory party and government itself...Cameron for example would not support, not sure about likes of Gove, Mordaunt, Cleverly etc.

While Gove was Justice Secretary, despite direction from the rest of the cabinet, he largely ignored the Tory campaign to exit ECHR and produce a "British Bill of Rights", treating it as an unnecessary distraction from doing actual work.

I don't like praising Gove, but while he hates the EU, he's very aware that the ECHR is entirely separate from the EU, and he's the only Justice Secretary we've had who would have been able to get a replacement proposal through the House of Lords.

I don't believe there's any chance Alex Chalk is capable enough of doing the background leg work for the political machine to get it pushed through before an election - even if that election isn't until January.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

As the Tory plan is not working properly and will likely keep not working properly - no.

this is the expansion of free child care to all under 5's. Sounds ok to me. They just need to make it work, spend the money etc.

[Neil]

4 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Agree they would struggle but that is why it is a good weapon for them to regain Reform and Red Wall voters who dislike immigrants. Loads of headlines, loads of publicity and loads of blaming Labour for the failure to fly to Rwanda...... and the Scum and Daily Hate today show that this is easy for them to get and the word used to describe the ECHR - the EURO court.

Sadly loads of people think the ECHR is to do with the EU and have no idea what it actually gives every one of us.

same as the eu cos its a foreign court telling the uk what to do.

[Neil]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

this is the expansion of free child care to all under 5's. Sounds ok to me. They just need to make it work, spend the money etc.

not enough nursery places  makes it impossible.

a male friend of mine got a job in an Edinburgh nursery about ten years ago  and got run out of town by parents who thought it was a bit odd a bloke working there. with attitudes like that it'll never get sorted.

 

 

[kaosmark2]

29 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

As the Tory plan is not working properly and will likely keep not working properly - no.

I'd say it's hard to be sure. When Labour have announced detail of any policy, they've either been chastised (rightly) for changing their commitment, or the Tories have attempted to steal their ideas and do a watered-down pointless variant that creates a load of exceptions for themselves and their mates. With this history, I don't think it's actually ridiculous for Labour to say "we'll keep the commitments then review the scheme and potentially make changes after".

However, the problem, is that it's Labour saying "trust us, you can trust us! Trust that you can trust us!" and... well... given how many commitments they've already rolled back on, and how they've continued to demonstrate a lack of regard to people's lives, and a cynical view of voters, I find it incredibly hard to trust them.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

every year when the mwage goes up there's people losing their jobs.

[Neil]

here's something for the not-British brigade to get angry about

 

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/grand-iftar-to-be-held-inside-bristol-cathedral/

[Neil]

greens, stating the obvious no solution offered.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68732007

[lazyred]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

once upon a time they'd have stuff like this on tv

 

Just read Trevor Griffiths obituary this morning and made a note to search for another of his, Bill Brand, about a left wing MP and the compromises of power.

https://www.youtube.com/@billbrand8889/videos