UK Politics

[steviewevie]

55 minutes ago, lazyred said:

I hope Starer holds firm on this. The New Deal for Workers has already been watered down and is still under attack from business and now the Blairites. This seems to be part of the reason for the recent briefing against Sue Gray. She's taken against the Blairites who thought they would control Starmer's office in power and sided with Angela Raynor on workers rights.

Rayner Vs Reeves

[steviewevie]

 

[lost]

He isn't going in on Galloways Workers party then? I also noticed tweets from the social democratic party following Ron Liddle on question time. They appear to most inline with how I'd describe the working class / red wall. Economically left wing but socially conservative.

[Neil]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:47 PM, Neil said:

jeremy spelling mistake has been shooting his gob off

as someone brought up in the neighbouring constituency  i know hes right about how much many people in farnham, guilford, etc earn. full on commuter belt with  bankers, spooks and civil servants (as abuilding trade I  once  [about 1980] worked on a big  posh house [with servants quarters] just outside of farnham, where the owner was a doctor who had been the queens doctor). lots of houses round there with servants quarters.

more from the spelling mistake....

Quote

house prices averaging around £670,000 in my area

 

[steviewevie]

54 minutes ago, lost said:

He isn't going in on Galloways Workers party then? I also noticed tweets from the social democratic party following Ron Liddle on question time. They appear to most inline with how I'd describe the working class / red wall. Economically left wing but socially conservative.

that isn't where Jones or other Corbynites are though...they are left on both economics and social stuff.

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

that isn't where Jones or other Corbynites are though...they are left on both economics and social stuff.

Most Corbynites are still in the Parliamentary Labour Party. Very few left/were thrown out.

They just toes the new line like good boys and girls do in Parliament.

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Most Corbynites are still in the Parliamentary Labour Party. Very few left/were thrown out.

They just toes the new line like good boys and girls do in Parliament.

yes, they wouldn't stand a chance breaking off and forming own party...I kind of meant voters.

I guess there is a chance Corbyn/Abbott could form a new party, and get backing from momentum or part of it...and support from Jones and Novara media lot. There is potential for that...but that would just end up splitting left vote and do more harm to Greens as well as Labour.

Anyway, I think Jones is looking to what happens after election  if Labour get a landslide but end up being sh*t.

[lost]

27 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

that isn't where Jones or other Corbynites are though...they are left on both economics and social stuff.

Havent a clue where the workers party on are on the social stuff. Are they also socially consevative as they are courting the muslim community on palestine.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, lost said:

Havent a clue where the workers party on are on the social stuff. Are they also socially consevative as they are courting the muslim community on palestine.

they are socially conservative, yes.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they are socially conservative, yes.

the main appeal for the muslim community was Gaza...but workers party are also anti-trans and anti net zero which may appeal to a range of different people. In Rochdale they had different pamphlets for muslim areas and white areas.

Jones has said that he doesn't support a lot of Galloway's stuff.

 

[Neil]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they are socially conservative, yes.

so is the uk (which labour leftists always miss), so its probably not a bad place for a political party to be.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

the main appeal for the muslim community was Gaza...but workers party are also anti-trans and anti net zero which may appeal to a range of different people. In Rochdale they had different pamphlets for muslim areas and white areas.

Jones has said that he doesn't support a lot of Galloway's stuff.

that's cos jones is not socially conservative, this alliance of convenience is likely to go horribly wrong.

[Nobody Interesting]

37 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, they wouldn't stand a chance breaking off and forming own party...I kind of meant voters.

I guess there is a chance Corbyn/Abbott could form a new party, and get backing from momentum or part of it...and support from Jones and Novara media lot. There is potential for that...but that would just end up splitting left vote and do more harm to Greens as well as Labour.

Anyway, I think Jones is looking to what happens after election  if Labour get a landslide but end up being sh*t.

Voters of 'left' parties seem far less willing to change who they vote for. Ukip then Brexit Party now Reform all have big chunks follow them when they are fed up of the Tories.

When people on the left are fed up of Labour they tend to vote Labour or not vote

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Voters of 'left' parties seem far less willing to change who they vote for. Ukip then Brexit Party now Reform all have big chunks follow them when they are fed up of the Tories.

When people on the left are fed up of Labour they tend to vote Labour or not vote

I think at moment for a lot of lefties the priority is getting the tories out, but if Labour have been in for a while and the left feel like they are not getting what they want that may change.

[steviewevie]

18 minutes ago, Neil said:

that's cos jones is not socially conservative, this alliance of convenience is likely to go horribly wrong.

well, there's that left/right economic/social graph, and Labour are probably kind of hitting the middle of that on a lot of stuff, which electorally is probably the winning place to be, along with fact the incumbent lot look exhausted, fractious and out of ideas. 

But, yes, it seems slightly to the left on ecomomic and to the right on social stuff is the actual place that wins elections...Johnson/Cummings knew this...but they f**ked it up. Now Tories have gone to right on everything and Labour are mopping up.

[Nobody Interesting]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think at moment for a lot of lefties the priority is getting the tories out, but if Labour have been in for a while and the left feel like they are not getting what they want that may change.

As proof that this does not happen I give you 1997 to 2010.

[steviewevie]

Corbyn's Labour economic policies were not unpopular..more spending paid for by higher taxes on higher incomes, nationalisation etc...but they kept f**king up (past and present) with dumb stuff about IRA, Hamas, Putin, Churchill that is not going to win an election in UK. They really blew it.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

As proof that this does not happen I give you 1997 to 2010.

True. But things different now, voters more volatile, a lot less trust in politicians and main stream politics. 

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

True. But things different now, voters more volatile, a lot less trust in politicians and main stream politics. 

25% Tories, 40% Labour, 10% lib Dem

Seems 7.5/10 are quite happy with mainstream aka same old same old

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

25% Tories, 40% Labour, 10% lib Dem

Seems 7.5/10 are quite happy with mainstream aka same old same old

yes, but Reform and Green.....if Labour don't improve things within next parliament where will support go...back to the Tories? Not so sure.

[Nobody Interesting]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, but Reform and Green.....if Labour don't improve things within next parliament where will support go...back to the Tories? Not so sure.

History says yes, back to the Tories and a dribble to Lib Dems.

History is always a good place to find what might happen in the future.

Not sure how Reform will effect things? Look at Ukip from 2013 onwards and you will find the answer.

I see nothing, not a thing, to suggest the UK political scene will change in my lifetime

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

History says yes, back to the Tories and a dribble to Lib Dems.

History is always a good place to find what might happen in the future.

Not sure how Reform will effect things? Look at Ukip from 2013 onwards and you will find the answer.

I see nothing, not a thing, to suggest the UK political scene will change in my lifetime

no probably not. I guess we could change our electoral system...but doesn't seem much eagerness for that from the big parties for obvious reasons. But...looking across europe and it's all about the rise of populist right anti immigrant and anti net zero parties, so not sure how eager I am either.

[Ommadawn]

The Tories must be desperate to target this site.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Corbyn's Labour economic policies were not unpopular..more spending paid for by higher taxes on higher incomes, nationalisation etc...but they kept f**king up (past and present) with dumb stuff about IRA, Hamas, Putin, Churchill that is not going to win an election in UK. They really blew it.

The policies deflected from corbyns unpopularity.

I think voters didn't feel they could trust him.

[Neil]

its taken 40+ years to come out, but something thatch claimed as a big triumph has finally been properly exposed as corrupt.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/24/al-yamamah-arms-deal-report-discovery-anti-corruption-mod-nao-britain-saudi-arabia

wonder if mark thatch got any of the pay-off - he was inexplicably rich.