UK Politics

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

another labour drop....green investment uturn?

 

Some notes from a poll a couple of days ago said there were fewer dont knows. These have been unusually high but they are now deciding. They are the 2019 labour switches to tory and are going to labour, tory and reform

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

well...some people did expect the polls to narrow as what Labour are offering comes into focus...and with the green investment uturn maybe people are thinking they're not offering that much that is different. Have to see what is in manifesto, but if Labour are going to make it super cautious bombproof because they're scared of Tory attacks then that might actually work against them if cost of leaving starts to ease and Labour start fighting amongst themselves over left/right stuff and Israel.

Still think Labour will win, but maybe a smallish majority or a hung parliament.

Or another poll will come out in a day or two with a 40 point lead for Labour.

The green investment may turn off a a few supporters (although most will accept it to get rid of the Torys) but I don’t think it’s an issue that swing voters are going to care (beyond the concern of it increasing general costs) about. It’s one of those things you need to get into power and get on with 

[pink_triangle]

29 minutes ago, SalviaPlath said:

Lee Harpin, when not hacking the phones of murdered children, is essentially a client journalist for the right wing of the Labour party. 

Is he wrong though? You would have to go on the doorsteps to confirm. I have worked community nhs for years and people (all end of the political spectrum) talk politics with me. They talk about housing, concerns for their kids/grandchildren, NHS, education etc in 17 years working nobody has ever mentioned Middle East politics.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Is he wrong though? You would have to go on the doorsteps to confirm. I have worked community nhs for years and people (all end of the political spectrum) talk politics with me. They talk about housing, concerns for their kids/grandchildren, NHS, education etc in 17 years working nobody has ever mentioned Middle East politics.

I think it probably is important to a lot of muslim voters at the moment.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The green investment may turn off a a few supporters (although most will accept it to get rid of the Torys) but I don’t think it’s an issue that swing voters are going to care (beyond the concern of it increasing general costs) about. It’s one of those things you need to get into power and get on with 

ok...but it was the stand out Labour policy...and now people see headlines that Labour have ditched it, another Labour uturn...unfair maybe but that is how it is...and so people think Labour are indecisive, what are they actually for, are they actually going to be any different to the current lot etc etc? Maybe that will change during a campaign, we'll see. Tories are quite possibly going to lose two seats tomorrow, and that will get all the attention (until Rochdale).

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think it probably is important to a lot of muslim voters at the moment.

I think however we run the risk of generalising and treating all Muslims as one bloc. I have spent my life working with Muslim people and again not one has ever mentioned Middle East politics to me , they have mentioned the same concerns as everyone else.

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

ok...but it was the stand out Labour policy...and now people see headlines that Labour have ditched it, another Labour uturn...unfair maybe but that is how it is...and so people think Labour are indecisive, what are they actually for, are they actually going to be any different to the current lot etc etc? Maybe that will change during a campaign, we'll see. Tories are quite possibly going to lose two seats tomorrow, and that will get all the attention (until Rochdale).

I think you’re overestimating how engaged the average voter is. I think of the average person in my work and I can guarantee they probably don’t know it was a pledge, nor do they know it has been watered down. 

[steviewevie]

25 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think you’re overestimating how engaged the average voter is. I think of the average person in my work and I can guarantee they probably don’t know it was a pledge, nor do they know it has been watered down. 

But they would have seen it heard the headlines.

[steviewevie]

28 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think however we run the risk of generalising and treating all Muslims as one bloc. I have spent my life working with Muslim people and again not one has ever mentioned Middle East politics to me , they have mentioned the same concerns as everyone else.

Sure, but I have heard many say they won't be voting labour. The question is who they will vote for if they don't , Galloway won't be standing in every seat.

[SalviaPlath]

35 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Is he wrong though? You would have to go on the doorsteps to confirm. I have worked community nhs for years and people (all end of the political spectrum) talk politics with me. They talk about housing, concerns for their kids/grandchildren, NHS, education etc in 17 years working nobody has ever mentioned Middle East politics.

Fair point but I canvassed for Labour for many years and international politics including the Middle East did come up and all sorts of views on that, by no means limited to a pro-Palestine position. I've heard both criticism and praise for Labour's international stances over the years. 

I would also say what people are willing to say to a canvasser or a journalist in public don't necessarily reflect their feelings or mean they don't care about something. People are scared of talking about Palestine because of a climate of fear and intimidation and concern that a reasonable objection to the Israeli offensive constitutes Antisemitism. 

Also let's look at it another way outside of the narrow by election context. People aren't talking about Labour's recent Antisemitism fiasco. Is this something to be celebrated? David Baddiel might have a point with the title of his book "Jews don't count" in that case. 

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, SalviaPlath said:

People are scared of talking about Palestine because of a climate of fear and intimidation and concern that a reasonable objection to the Israeli offensive constitutes Antisemitism.

Well said

It's a massive problem. Legitimate questioning and debate being shut down.

Edited February 14 by Skip997

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Well said

It's a massive problem. Legitimate questioning and debate being shut down.

Fear and intimidation on both sides. 

[Nobody Interesting]

6 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Well said

It's a massive problem. Legitimate questioning and debate being shut down.

Absolutely spot on and why Israel is just doing what it wants when it wants - cos it knows it can.

[Nobody Interesting]

As for the polls etc

The UK really really needs change and Labour is showing that they are not really much of a change. In fighting, splits, Uturns and almost zero new ideas.

 

I so wish the electorate understood that another 75 plus years of Red then Blue then Red, then Blue etc means little will ever change but this forum shows that the majority still think it will give change - when there is no evidence from history to show it will.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I so wish the electorate understood that another 75 plus years of Red then Blue then Red, then Blue etc means little will ever change but this forum shows that the majority still think it will give change - when there is no evidence from history to show it will.

Our electoral system does not encourage long term thinking.

Why bother when you may only have 5 years, half of which is spent trying to ensure you have a job next term.

Look what happens when someone with "radical" ideas that might actually change things comes along. The tabloids make sure they'll never get elected.

Fear of change is killing the country.

[steviewevie]

Apparently the Labour decision on this Ali bloke was after campaign leaflets sent out, so people will still get Labour pamphlets in their letterboxes this week. Embarrassing.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Skip997 said:

Our electoral system does not encourage long term thinking.

Why bother when you may only have 5 years, half of which is spent trying to ensure you have a job next term.

Look what happens when someone with "radical" ideas that might actually change things comes along. The tabloids make sure they'll never get elected.

Fear of change is killing the country.

Brexit was a pretty big change. Maybe we should have more referendums. We could have one on whether we should ditch net zero 

[Skip997]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Brexit was a pretty big change. Maybe we should have more referendums. We could have one on whether we should ditch net zero 

There's no way we should ever have a referendum again, the electorate as a whole are too thick.

[clarkete]

9 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

There's no way we should ever have a referendum again, the electorate as a whole are too thick.

Some States decide lots of things by referendums and it causes terrible problems and paralyses their ability to run things competently...not that our central gov has excelled in that area for many years. 

[steviewevie]

it's all over

 

[fred quimby]

29 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Our electoral system does not encourage long term thinking.

Why bother when you may only have 5 years, half of which is spent trying to ensure you have a job next term.

Look what happens when someone with "radical" ideas that might actually change things comes along. The tabloids make sure they'll never get elected.

Fear of change is killing the country.

Time for a people's assembly? 

Or just go with a dictator. China going ahead with long term plans. Going to hit net Zero ahead of their target.  Just need a nice dictator of course. 😀

It does feel that people are more and more put off by politics. More of the same and they never stick to promises type thing. Believe we will get a Labour government but I feel at present it is opening space for more populist people to step in and gain traction. See that around the world. We will have to see if people see through them

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, fred quimby said:

Time for a people's assembly? 

Or just go with a dictator. China going ahead with long term plans. Going to hit net Zero ahead of their target.  Just need a nice dictator of course. 😀

 

Really don't know what the solution is, but somehow we need to encourage long term planning.

[steviewevie]

just put the computers in charge.

[stuie]

37 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

There's no way we should ever have a referendum again, the electorate as a whole are too thick.

and/or racist, xenophobic and misled. 

[steviewevie]

Maybe what they should do is only give the vote to nice lefty liberal green woke voters (or just everyone under 40, except maybe GenZ males).