So anyone adamant they are not going next year ?

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Mad when you think about it that such a fundamental part of the festival (in fact so many roles at festivals in general) is dependant on unpaid volunteers with minimal training.

And I say that as one of those unpaid volunteers.

Amazing I agree … demand next year I’d imagine will continue to increase as its value seems to be improving each year 

[incident]

43 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Mad when you think about it that such a fundamental part of the festival (in fact so many roles at festivals in general) is dependant on unpaid volunteers with minimal training.

And I say that as one of those unpaid volunteers.

That's true, but I would also say that in terms of the various issues with the gates* at Glastonbury, the volunteer side of the operation is the least of the problems. The processes and procedures, being both overly complex and with gaping holes in them, and the paid staff with more access to subvert the system are what needs addressing first.

*using the term in the wider sense of festival entry and security of course.

[incident]

This is from the Shambala staff handbook:

I can't say first hand how well those are actually enforced on the ground (I suspect they've less need to do so) - but Glastonbury would do well to take that stance. Though they might be looking for a new area manager or two if they did.

[BlueDaze]

3 hours ago, StoneCircle said:

Pop in to E21 Campervan field on Wednesday or Thursday evening and you will see the groups of people without wristbands awaiting there meet up with a trader to smuggle them in. Or being rounded up by security and being removed from the site. This has been happening for years! 

I've certainly seen large groups (up to 20) of youngsters wandering around the CV fields before.. What has always surprised me is that 1. You have to get into the car parks (assume you need at least a car park ticket for that?) 2. You have to get from the car-parks to the CV fields (they are all manned gates) and that is before the even trickier 3. Getting from CV fields into the festival...

That being said it would need thousands to get in to make the festival feel over busy surely...?  

[incident]

51 minutes ago, BlueDaze said:

That being said it would need thousands to get in to make the festival feel over busy surely...?  

Yep.

I don't think any of us would be confident in stating a number.

But I'd be surprised if it's currently less than 20k getting in "off the books".

[StoneCircle]

55 minutes ago, BlueDaze said:

I've certainly seen large groups (up to 20) of youngsters wandering around the CV fields before.. What has always surprised me is that 1. You have to get into the car parks (assume you need at least a car park ticket for that?) 2. You have to get from the car-parks to the CV fields (they are all manned gates) and that is before the even trickier 3. Getting from CV fields into the festival...

That being said it would need thousands to get in to make the festival feel over busy surely...?  

The groups rounded up are considerably larger than 20! And there are many gates! The faster we all get EPO tickets the better. 

[BlueDaze]

1 hour ago, incident said:

Yep.

I don't think any of us would be confident in stating a number.

But I'd be surprised if it's currently less than 20k getting in "off the books".

😲

[DeanoL]

14 hours ago, StoneCircle said:

The groups rounded up are considerably larger than 20! And there are many gates! The faster we all get EPO tickets the better. 

How does that fix these issues though?

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

15 hours ago, incident said:

Yep.

I don't think any of us would be confident in stating a number.

But I'd be surprised if it's currently less than 20k getting in "off the books".

It would be interesting to know what GFL's take is on it. They must have an idea on an estimated number, based upon the data available to them. Like I said before, it's obviously not an issue they want to publicise, for numerous reasons, but I'd like to think it's one they work hard to address. Have they ever been challenged on it publicly? 

[The Nal]

16 hours ago, BlueDaze said:

I've certainly seen large groups (up to 20) of youngsters wandering around the CV fields before.. What has always surprised me is that 1. You have to get into the car parks (assume you need at least a car park ticket for that?) 2. You have to get from the car-parks to the CV fields (they are all manned gates) and that is before the even trickier 3. Getting from CV fields into the festival...

That being said it would need thousands to get in to make the festival feel over busy surely...?  

If by "manned gates" you mean some old hippy woman sitting on a chair waving at people then yeah.

They dont check for tickets most of the time in the CV fields.

[Avalon_Fields]

15 hours ago, incident said:

Yep.

I don't think any of us would be confident in stating a number.

But I'd be surprised if it's currently less than 20k getting in "off the books".

Really!? I'm amazed. What insights do you have that lead to that number?

[BlueDaze]

39 minutes ago, The Nal said:

If by "manned gates" you mean some old hippy woman sitting on a chair waving at people then yeah.

They dont check for tickets most of the time in the CV fields.

granted I dont have a ton of experience as I have never volunteered... but i have stayed in the CV fields over 10 times...

Immediate experience with it was when my wife and daughter drove the car up on the Wednesday as they couldnt come with us on the Tuesday... They had to show Festival tickets to get access to the Car Park and then had to show them again to get from CP to CV East...

Last year I helped a lady in the CV fields get moved as her neighbours were obnoxious... The fella on the gate between CP and CVE was at pains to let us know that he could not leave his post in case anyone tried to get in the gate... and he directed us to the (named) Lead Steward and his wife (Deputy) who were proper switched on...

EVERY time i have gone through the gates at PGC (probably 50+ times) I have had to show my ticket and more often than not am asked to remove hat & sunglasses...

Your 'old hippy woman sitting on a chair waving' isnt a fair reflection..  

[The Nal]

4 minutes ago, BlueDaze said:

granted I dont have a ton of experience as I have never volunteered... but i have stayed in the CV fields over 10 times...

Immediate experience with it was when my wife and daughter drove the car up on the Wednesday as they couldnt come with us on the Tuesday... They had to show Festival tickets to get access to the Car Park and then had to show them again to get from CP to CV East...

Last year I helped a lady in the CV fields get moved as her neighbours were obnoxious... The fella on the gate between CP and CVE was at pains to let us know that he could not leave his post in case anyone tried to get in the gate... and he directed us to the (named) Lead Steward and his wife (Deputy) who were proper switched on...

EVERY time i have gone through the gates at PGC (probably 50+ times) I have had to show my ticket and more often than not am asked to remove hat & sunglasses...

Your 'old hippy woman sitting on a chair waving' isnt a fair reflection..  

Oh sure you wont stroll in PGC without a ticket but you'll get into the camper fields without one. I have. Missed the coach so stayed in the camper fields on Tuesday and walked round to PGA on Wednesday to get my ticket.

[incident]

53 minutes ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

It would be interesting to know what GFL's take is on it. They must have an idea on an estimated number, based upon the data available to them. Like I said before, it's obviously not an issue they want to publicise, for numerous reasons, but I'd like to think it's one they work hard to address. Have they ever been challenged on it publicly? 

I'm not sure I agree that it's one they work hard to address. I think they address the perception (for example by putting up a big scary fence), but less so in terms of taking action that might "rock the boat".

They could quite easily for example send ringers to (try to) gain unofficial entry, identify security staff involved, and heavily penalise the company. It's not like the places to look are a secret. Or they could pay closer attention to crews bringing people on site without accreditation before the gates are open "Sure, they'll be gone before Wednesday". Or in the case of people "making deliveries", even after the gates are open.

I can understand it to an extent, on a festival of this scale there's only a limited number of security companies you can stop working with before you run out. Similar applies for people helping make the festival (or part of it) happen - if say their other half can't get in under the radar, they might not bother coming.

58 minutes ago, Avalon_Fields said:

Really!? I'm amazed. What insights do you have that lead to that number?

It's largely a guess, based on knowing how porous things can be in certain places and extrapolating. I could be guessing high, that's very possible, but suspect I'm more likely to be low.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I thought they did test security with ringers / secret shoppers....?

[incident]

Just now, CaledonianGonzo said:

I thought they did test security with ringers / secret shoppers....?

They test the gate staff, in terms of fake tickets and wrong photos etc. Which I believe is mandated by the Council.

Don't believe they try the "send someone to the Riflemans, wait for a van to pull up" route.

[Skip997]

1 hour ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

It would be interesting to know what GFL's take is on it.

My belief is that "unofficially" they aren't that bothered as long as they've sold enough tickets to put the event on.

 

[Neil]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:07 AM, Neil said:

yeah, me, but not my wife, so things might change.

I went for the 30th time this year and mentally approached it as my last so I'm ready to finish if that's what I do.

i'm still in the not going camp, but this morning my wife said she was worried that talking heads will be announced and i'd want to go, i was straight back with  - "if that happened they'd be playing other shows and i could go to them instead".

[StoneCircle]

2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

How does that fix these issues though?

It flags up if it's used to enter (pass in) the festival but and hasn't been used to leave (pass out). 

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, StoneCircle said:

It flags up if it's used to enter (pass in) the festival but and hasn't been used to leave (pass out). 

That doesn't fix people being smuggled in in vans though right?

I know there have been various exploitations of pass-out system in previous years but that doesn't seem to be how the majority are getting in? Or I've missed something/ confused two things?

[Skip997]

There's a lot of "turning a blind eye" going on.

[stuie]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

That doesn't fix people being smuggled in in vans though right?

I know there have been various exploitations of pass-out system in previous years but that doesn't seem to be how the majority are getting in? Or I've missed something/ confused two things?

There’s persistent rumours of a tunnel being operated by folk with a certain regional accent but I expect that’s bollocks.

 

[StoneCircle]

6 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

That doesn't fix people being smuggled in in vans though right?

I know there have been various exploitations of pass-out system in previous years but that doesn't seem to be how the majority are getting in? Or I've missed something/ confused two things?

I don't think a trader would risk smuggling in people without a wristband. They would stand to lose their stall if caught. 

[The Nal]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

There's a lot of "turning a blind eye" going on.

Mate of mine bought a ticket from a security guy one year. For £500 mind you. But the bloke was just sat outside The King Arthur pub in Glasto town selling passes in between shifts.

Local taxi driver I had one year told me he used to smuggle people in when he was a delivery driver.

A lot of the locals absolutely hate the festival anyway so they'll milk/abuse it for all its worth if they can. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Isn't that a metaphorical tunnel (as opposed to an actual hole in the ground....)?