news & politics:discussion

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, DeanoL said:

It's the opposite of that.

You're arguing that Labour should give the electorate what they want, whatever they need to do to get in.

Except the electorate said what they wanted last election: they wanted Boris and the Tories by an 80 majority.

So we either convince them they don't, or Labour become them.

Winning the argument *does* actually matter. But if all you care about is Labour getting into power their best shot by a mile would be to take a position marginally to the *right* of the current Tory party rather than marginally to the left of it, as you seem to be advocating.

Im arguingthat labour should recognise cicumstances and not think thwyre somhow above circumstances. 

[steviewevie]

10 hours ago, DeanoL said:

It's the opposite of that.

You're arguing that Labour should give the electorate what they want, whatever they need to do to get in.

Except the electorate said what they wanted last election: they wanted Boris and the Tories by an 80 majority.

So we either convince them they don't, or Labour become them.

Winning the argument *does* actually matter. But if all you care about is Labour getting into power their best shot by a mile would be to take a position marginally to the *right* of the current Tory party rather than marginally to the left of it, as you seem to be advocating.

I guess the sweet spot electorally at the moment is a bit too the left on economics...state spending etc, but socially conservative...but labour can't take the tories on in this space...labour isn't trusted with the economy, and they can't out flag the tories. I think labour should stick to more radical policies similar to Corbyn/McDonnell with more help with social care, benefits etc, and be positive about what is good about this country..multiculturalism, internationalism etc.

[steviewevie]

 

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

I see Spaffer has been gaslighting the country by saying he's looking forward to a haircut.

Does anyone believe he has hair that needs cutting before it fAlls out.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Im arguingthat labour should recognise cicumstances and not think thwyre somhow above circumstances. 

This whole debate started because you didn't think a black man should be telling someone who says he isn't British because of his skin colour that he's wrong.

Yes, a lot of the country is racist but no, I'm not willing to just recognise the circumstances and jump on board with that just to get Labour in to power.

[eFestivals]

24 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

This whole debate started because you didn't think a black man should be telling someone who says he isn't British because of his skin colour that he's wrong

Thats nothing like i said by labourbacking the idea of black peolples needs being different a disconnect is created in other people. 

Quote

Yes, a lot of the country is racist but no, I'm not willing to just recognise the circumstances and jump on board with that just to get Labour in to power.

That nothing like i suggested. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by eFestivals

[steviewevie]

Quelle surprise...

 

[fraybentos1]

Predictably haven't been posted in the thread yet. If you switched Labour and Tory around it would have been!

[mattiloy]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

Predictably haven't been posted in the thread yet. If you switched Labour and Tory around it would have been!

Any other leader would be 20 points ahead.

[mcshed]

1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

Predictably haven't been posted in the thread yet. If you switched Labour and Tory around it would have been!

More polls get posted on here with these sorts of statements than any other kind of poll.

[fraybentos1]

Just now, mattiloy said:

Any other leader would be 20 points ahead.

Nah man that chat is so dull. So is calling him Keith. 

I do have a bit of sympathy for Starmer cause it's a tough gig as opposition during a pandemic but if we are gonna post polls it can't just be when Labour are doing well. 

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, mcshed said:

More polls get posted on here with these sorts of statements than any other kind of poll.

Most polls are posted by @Ozannebut only when it is a good one for Labour. It is pointless. Post them all or none at all. He literally did it last week for one which was alright for Labour but never posts one when it's bad for Labour. All comes down to a bizarre obsession with Keir Starmer.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Any other leader would be 20 points ahead.

Like Corbyn wasn't.

[eFestivals]

47 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Quelle surprise...

 

What a surprise Patel's department clears her again.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Most polls are posted by @Ozannebut only when it is a good one for Labour. It is pointless. Post them all or none at all. He literally did it last week for one which was alright for Labour but never posts one when it's bad for Labour. All comes down to a bizarre obsession with Keir Starmer.

almost as weird as your obsession with Ozanne.

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Predictably haven't been posted in the thread yet. If you switched Labour and Tory around it would have been!

Corbyn's shadow cabinet scared the voters.

Starmer is failing cos his Shadow cabinet is nowhere to be seen.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Corbyn's shadow cabinet scared the voters.

Starmer is failing cos his Shadow cabinet is nowhere to be seen.

Reports are that Starmer is going to replace Dodds with Rachel Reeves, I’m not sure if this will make much difference as it’s difficult in a pandemic to get out there and noticed. 

[mattiloy]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Corbyn's shadow cabinet scared the voters.

Starmer is failing cos his Shadow cabinet is nowhere to be seen.

A poor workman blames his tools..

 

Honestly its desperate stuff, the bottomless well of excuses for the electable one. 

Actually can’t wait til Starmer replaces even the soft left shadow cabinet members with a bunch of right wing electable ghouls, gets about 15% of the vote in 2024 and somehow they are still saying ’But Jeremy Corbyn!!!!!!..’

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Reports are that Starmer is going to replace Dodds with Rachel Reeves, I’m not sure if this will make much difference as it’s difficult in a pandemic to get out there and noticed. 

It depends if Reeve's ewill try to get her face out there.the public need to trust labour as an alternative govt which needs the public getting to know them.

[eFestivals]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

I think I have only seen Lisa Nandy.  Couldnt name any of the others.

They're good at hiding.

[eFestivals]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

They could fill it up with a load of lefties and still lose...

End result is a Tory government.  Its over for Labour.

Lefties are not the answer unless the UK gets a different electorate.

[mcshed]

29 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Most polls are posted by @Ozannebut only when it is a good one for Labour. It is pointless. Post them all or none at all. He literally did it last week for one which was alright for Labour but never posts one when it's bad for Labour. All comes down to a bizarre obsession with Keir Starmer.

Most polls posted by Ozanne may show Labour leads but you are not the only person who posts competing polls so in fact most polls posted in this and previously the Coronavirus thread don't show Labour leads. Which in and of itself is fine, as you say a broad picture is the best way to interpret polls but every time a non pro-Labour poll is posted it comes with this silly caveat about how these polls never get talked about on here. It is the nonsense gaslighting of right wing commentators complaining about being cancelled or silenced whilst the right own most of the media in microcosm.

If you want all polls to be posted here that's fine, if you only think polls with huge Tory leads should be posted here that's fine but what I take umbrage with is the idea that only Labour leads are seen here, that is nonsense.

[mattiloy]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Lefties are not the answer unless the UK gets a different electorate.

Lefties are not the answer unless the media and the right of the labour party undermine what was a popular policy platform as polling on single issues demonstrates time and again.*

[Crazyfool01]

37 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Most polls are posted by @Ozannebut only when it is a good one for Labour. It is pointless. Post them all or none at all. He literally did it last week for one which was alright for Labour but never posts one when it's bad for Labour. All comes down to a bizarre obsession with Keir Starmer.

Give the Ozzane stuff a rest please ... he’s not responding to your baiting ... it’s not unreasonable to disagree but the constant stuff is a bit ridiculous now ... on the polls thing ... if it were to  translate to football I’d be shouting from the roof top if and when my team are doing well and quieter when they aren’t ... so as much as it’s one sided it does make sense 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Lefties are not the answer unless the media and the right of the labour party undermine what was a popular policy platform as polling on single issues demonstrates time and again.*

Not popular enough to win.the tories increased their vote by more than labour did elections are not about single issues but a govt to deal with all issues.

Edited March 30, 2021 by eFestivals