When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

They told us to stay home when there were a lot of cases around and we were at risk of overwhelming the NHS...now we are a long way from that so really can start going back to work, and even using public transport. I guess a lot of people will not be fully confident until a vaccine is available...and any vaccine will likely not fully protect us all...but like flu it will help reduce anxieties so we can get back to some sort of normality.

The amount of people I hear saying that the commute is horrible and that they are much happier working from home is concerning. Surely this is a good opportunity to give people that freedom, let people be happier not demand they come back to offices so people by an over-priced sandwich every day.

[parsonjack]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The amount of people I hear saying that the commute is horrible and that they are much happier working from home is concerning. Surely this is a good opportunity to give people that freedom, let people be happier not demand they come back to offices so people by an over-priced sandwich every day.

My entire team haven't been near the office since middle of March.  We're working fully effectively from home, and it could argued more effectively due to lack of commute, lack of distraction and the ability to hold meetings without having to leave the desk and wander down the corridor.  We also have new meeting policies which limit us to 50 minutes to ensure no back to backs, no meetings on Fridays, or before 0900/after 1700.  The ability to hold 'silent' Skype text discussions during voice conferences is also brilliant.  We see no reason at present to return.

[Sasperella]

14 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The amount of people I hear saying that the commute is horrible and that they are much happier working from home is concerning. Surely this is a good opportunity to give people that freedom, let people be happier not demand they come back to offices so people by an over-priced sandwich every day.

Yeh... I actually used to hate working from home. I'm pretty social and liked having my colleagues around. Even on Friday's when it was quite empty, I'd be there! But it's a 20 min walk to the train station and a 25 min train ride. Now I do yoga in the morning, have a nice breakfast before work, save money on transport and have a bit more free time in the evening (although granted, I often work later now). I've started to prefer it, and that's before we even get to the winter when I basically do the journey both ways in the dark! 

There's no way I'll be going back in five days a week. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Sasperella

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The amount of people I hear saying that the commute is horrible and that they are much happier working from home is concerning. Surely this is a good opportunity to give people that freedom, let people be happier not demand they come back to offices so people by an over-priced sandwich every day.

Well..yeah...ok. Then I guess that changes things. Those businesses who sell those over priced sandwiches are gone, as well as all other businesses such as pubs/restaurants/gyms. Hopefully they will be replaced by new jobs for people,  delivering stuff to home workers, or based in suburban locations...who knows.

And what does it mean for public transport? Bye bye to more bus services. Bye bye city trams. Bye bye certain train services. A lot of our economy is actually based around people commuting and going into work...if this goes that actually causes a lot of damage. Maybe it was inevitable anyway with the internet etc., but it will be a short sharp shock to various parts of the economy.

Edited July 16, 2020 by steviewevie

[Sasperella]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Well..yeah...ok. Then I guess that changes things. Those businesses who sell those over priced sandwiches are gone, as well as all other businesses such as pubs/restaurants/gyms. Hopefully they will be replaced by new jobs for people,  delivering stuff to home workers, or based in suburban locations...who knows.

And what does it mean for public transport? Bye bye to more bus services. Bye bye city trams. Bye bye certain train services. A lot of our economy is actually based around people commuting and going into work...if this goes that actually causes a lot of damage. Maybe it was inevitable anyway with the internet etc., but it will be a short sharp shock to various parts of the economy.

Would it not just be quicker and easier to overthrow capitalism and be done with it?

[parsonjack]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Well..yeah...ok. Then I guess that changes things. Those businesses who sell those over priced sandwiches are gone, as well as all other businesses such as pubs/restaurants/gyms. Hopefully they will be replaced by new jobs for people,  delivering stuff to home workers, or based in suburban locations...who knows.

And what does it mean for public transport? Bye bye to more bus services. Bye bye city trams. Bye bye certain train services. A lot of our economy is actually based around people commuting and going into work...if this goes that actually causes a lot of damage. Maybe it was inevitable anyway with the internet etc., but it will be a short sharp shock to various parts of the economy.

You have good points and certainly some businesses will need to diversify to survive.  I'm guilty of not being too arsed to make myself lunch when WFH....I'd bite the hand off a local sandwich/salad/soup/noodle delivery service that I could order via an app and have it on my doorstep an hour later.  

[Ozanne]

Maybe this is an ideal time to look at how our economy and society is setup? We could focus on a society where people are home with their families more, have more time to themselves instead of spending hours a month on a train next to strangers. We won’t take advantage of the downtime and press ahead with going back to a norm that makes some miserable.

 

@Sasperella It’s great you’ve started to enjoy WFH and the benefits that entails. I understand it’s not for everyone though, due to personal situations etc. That’s why the choice is going to be important, the businesses that realise that will be better suited for the future. 
@parsonjack Your WFH setup sounds good, seems like it could benefit many. 

[efcfanwirral]

19 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Well..yeah...ok. Then I guess that changes things. Those businesses who sell those over priced sandwiches are gone, as well as all other businesses such as pubs/restaurants/gyms. Hopefully they will be replaced by new jobs for people,  delivering stuff to home workers, or based in suburban locations...who knows.

And what does it mean for public transport? Bye bye to more bus services. Bye bye city trams. Bye bye certain train services. A lot of our economy is actually based around people commuting and going into work...if this goes that actually causes a lot of damage. Maybe it was inevitable anyway with the internet etc., but it will be a short sharp shock to various parts of the economy.

Big problem is that it makes large amounts of people utterly miserable, and financially screwed by their commute costs etc. Every sensible person should make their own lunch but the general commuting lifestyle means there isnt always time or motivation, and the queues in pret show that others are the same. 

We can't just ignore the fact people have now had a peek at a different, and for some better, way of doing things. Not spending hundreds a month on transport for an awful experience for a start, spending more time with families, doing more exercise etc. The normal lifestyle for some (obviously some love it) makes them actually depressed and miserable. 

But...we live in a capitalist society and that will never change, so its probably too idealistic to expect anything other than a return to the status quo, with even more discouragement of home working.

I say this from a privileged position as someone who has gone fully remote freelance because I hated every single thing about working in an office...and I lived city centre because the extra hundred or so of commuting money was the difference between rent in and out of Manchester. Commuting on the Bury line made it even worse.

Edited July 16, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Cream Soda]

17 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Maybe this is an ideal time to look at how our economy and society is setup? We could focus on a society where people are home with their families more, have more time to themselves instead of spending hours a month on a train next to strangers. We won’t take advantage of the downtime and press ahead with going back to a norm that makes some miserable.

I totally agree, we have a real opportunity here, if we want it.  I have worked from home for about 4 years now and I could never go back.  Yes it would cause some temporary upheaval and changes,  some people would lose jobs initially etc but in the long term we could end up with something so much better.  The problem is I can't see it ever happening because the current way works just fine for those in power.  A society where people have more time and freedom to think about what is really important in life and maybe to notice what is wrong, rather than be preoccupied on the hamster wheel before putting their kids to bed at night and collapsing ready to do it all the next day is probably the last thing they want.

(I know not everyone lives like that, but lots do).

[steviewevie]

23 minutes ago, Sasperella said:

Would it not just be quicker and easier to overthrow capitalism and be done with it?

I guess. Then we could buy yummy state sandwiches.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, jparx said:

 

I don’t see what good it would do. Certainly where I work the plan is to return in September and Boris blustering for an hour won’t make them speed it up. 

I agree but it's been reported that he was doing some sort of announcement to this effect tomorrow? Could be wrong.

I've no desire to go back to the office any time soon. Always hated the commute and it's awesome to have those hours back.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I totally agree, we have a real opportunity here, if we want it.  I have worked from home for about 4 years now and I could never go back.  Yes it would cause some temporary upheaval and changes,  some people would lose jobs initially etc but in the long term we could end up with something so much better.  The problem is I can't see it ever happening because the current way works just fine for those in power.  A society where people have more time and freedom to think about what is really important in life and maybe to notice what is wrong, rather than be preoccupied on the hamster wheel before putting their kids to bed at night and collapsing ready to do it all the next day is probably the last thing they want.

(I know not everyone lives like that, but lots do).

You are spot on. A lot of people I reckon are feeling the same, actually this can be seen in the recent polling that showed nearly two-thirds of the public and more than half of Conservative voters believe the government should explore the introduction of a four-day working week in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. This was in a Survation poll that showed just 6% (!) being strongly opposed. This could be a real eye opening moment for society here in the UK, to be fair it kind of is already for the public, but as you say the powerful & rich don't want that so fundamental change won't happen.

[steviewevie]

29 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Maybe this is an ideal time to look at how our economy and society is setup? We could focus on a society where people are home with their families more, have more time to themselves instead of spending hours a month on a train next to strangers. We won’t take advantage of the downtime and press ahead with going back to a norm that makes some miserable.

 

to me that sounds kind of sad...but maybe that's where we'll end up.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

It’s amazing how quickly things can change and hopefully it will be a lasting change. For my last company the office was a massive vanity project on behalf of the CEO and it was used as way of driving recruitment. They had professional videos made and splashed it all over social media, it had a gym and a bar and it was the main selling point to any potential staff. Will that be any bodies priority now though? A lot of people’s focus would’ve shifted and the ability to work from home will be more of a priority than a snazzy office.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

to me that sounds kind of sad...but maybe that's where we'll end up.

What bit? 😂

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

What bit? 😂

we all just stay home in our little bubbles in surburbia.

Edited July 16, 2020 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

I wish I could remember how to spell suburbia.

[shoptildrop]

59 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The amount of people I hear saying that the commute is horrible and that they are much happier working from home is concerning. Surely this is a good opportunity to give people that freedom, let people be happier not demand they come back to offices so people by an over-priced sandwich every day.

I have 3 hour+ round trip commute a day (driving), I can do my job from home and feel less knackered so I'm all for WFH if I can

My place are being good on keeping numbers down, my concern is my immediate managers still seem to prefer face to face interaction and whilst officially I would be able to WFH it would probably put me on the backfoot with my manager - that's my worry for when I'm taken off furlough (which I hope is soon as going stir crazy)

[efcfanwirral]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

to me that sounds kind of sad...but maybe that's where we'll end up.

 

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

we all just stay home in our little bubbles in surburbia.

I think a hybrid would make the most sense - where people get to choose on the whole. Apart from meetings, catch ups and occasional team socials it should be "if you get the work done do it wherever you want" 

Instead of moaning about it, commercial property companies should be innovating by looking at smaller office space options with meeting rooms to fit in with this. They don't have to lose out; there are rewards in a changed environment for those willing to make changes themselves. Same goes for the office lunch places

Edited July 16, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[steviewevie]

if you want cheering up, don't watch John Edmunds on Ch4 news.

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I wish I could remember how to spell suburbia.

Stay at home in bubbles, with our babies in a subabia?

1 minute ago, shoptildrop said:

I have 3 hour+ round trip commute a day (driving), I can do my job from home and feel less knackered so I'm all for WFH if I can

My place are being good on keeping numbers down, my concern is my immediate managers still seem to prefer face to face interaction and whilst officially I would be able to WFH it would probably put me on the backfoot with my manager - that's my worry for when I'm taken off furlough (which I hope is soon as going stir crazy)

Thats going to be a big problem I think. My fear is that middle management insisting on staff being in the office because of some ageing way of thinking. My work at the moment are saying no change to working from home but that will start to change when government guidelines change. It will be very drawn out and take place over months but still gives me worry that they'll just turn around and insist on staff coming back at some point. My team are pretty solidly behind WFH still including the senior managers in my team which is reassuring.

[steviewevie]

The way things are going...our towns and city centres will just be void of businesses, void of pubs and restautants...will just be delivery vans everywhere and people on zoom conference calls day and night. Brave new world.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

At some point the virus is going to fade into the background, but that could still be a way off. I think what will happen is that things will gradually drift back to normal, but the ability to work from home will have rocketed up peoples list of priorities when it comes to a job and an employer. Employees will offer people the ability to work from home maybe once or twice per week, or a week or month or whatever it might be. It will become a given and a standard benefit, and a basic expectation for employees.

[shoptildrop]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Stay at home in bubbles, with our babies in a subabia?

Thats going to be a big problem I think. My fear is that middle management insisting on staff being in the office because of some ageing way of thinking. My work at the moment are saying no change to working from home but that will start to change when government guidelines change. It will be very drawn out and take place over months but still gives me worry that they'll just turn around and insist on staff coming back at some point. My team are pretty solidly behind WFH still including the senior managers in my team which is reassuring.

Agree as there is some proper old school ways of thinking, one being my manager doesn't think you can do a personal review over Skype as you can't pick up on something I'm not sure about - she was dead against it but in my previous job my team was in China and manager in NZ so Skype worked for me...

I also think as Gov relax rule work will follow, so I'm not sure how much push I will get from my manager to come to office simply due to being bum on seat in view nothing to do with role can be done from home - I will effectively be going to work to answer emails and review electronic documents whilst speaking on phone to people outside the company - its nuts!!

[steviewevie]

I'm sure businesses will be happy to do the work from home thing...will save shitloads of rent money...and people can then work day and night.