Greta Thunberg

[maelzoid]

Just had a quick look on Atmosfair.

My brother lives in South France so to visit him I almost always fly. That return trip costs just €11 to offset. I feel there really is no excuse not to. Although I am dabbling with ferry / train next time even though it will take way longer and cost more.

The ideal system would be that regulations force all air passengers to pay to offset as a tax, and yes that would mean that air travel would become inaccessible to some who currently enjoy it. But until that happens, I am happy that we can make the choice to do so personally.

[Winslow Leach]

Where’s Carlos the Jackal when you need him?

[maelzoid]

Every social revolution started with just one person...

I agree that we need an enormous global-wide structural change to achieve this. That will take the will of perhaps billions of people. We don't get that overnight, it has to be nurtured and grown. And that's why individual actions are important.

[Scott129]

5 minutes ago, Superscally said:

I've heard that argument, but I prefer this:

 

Just like one person taking a flight doesn't make a dent in the carbon situation, it creates demand. Millions of individuals thinking and acting in a way is picked up on by business and governments and creates change. People just need to believe and act even though it seems like the biggest waste of time to many.

You make an interesting point, and i'm in no way saying that people shouldn't alter their ways. But I don't see how we're going to get the majority of people to unilaterally give up flying/meat/plastic etc without there first being some big state shift in that direction. And say for example flying, even if most people gave up the 1/2 flights they take a year (48% don't take any) you'd still have the 1% who take 20% of all flights. 

Fundamentally we need big government shifts to tackle climate and I think the way you build consent for that isn't saying you can't do this, you can't do that etc. Its to focus on how a green society can actually improve the lives of the majority with things like free public services etc. 

Btw its absolutely great the steps you're taking.

[Mardy]

Thing is none of us are willing to give up things that really make a difference. Talk to anyone and they’ll explain that while they think it’s worrying and  something should definitely be done, personally it’s different for me and I NEED a car, you know, cos my situation means its  necessary. We’re all the same, none of us is really ready to endure long term major systemic changes, which is honestly what’s needed. I mean, fucks sake, most of us aren’t ready to have even minor short term discomfort. There’s no way out of this one, it’s too late, we’re proper doomed/fucked/up shit creek without a paddle.

 

and now, here’s Tom with the weather.

[Scott129]

1 minute ago, Mardy said:

personally it’s different for me and I NEED a car, you know, cos my situation means its  necessary.

I think this is a good example. You have to create an environment whrre cars aren't necessary e.g. Because there is good quality cheap/free public transport. We can't expect everyone to be able to afford to just unilaterally give up a car without that in the hope that something good will follow ftom that. 

[Superscally]

3 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

You make an interesting point, and i'm in no way saying that people shouldn't alter their ways. But I don't see how we're going to get the majority of people to unilaterally give up flying/meat/plastic etc without there first being some big state shift in that direction. And say for example flying, even if most people gave up the 1/2 flights they take a year (48% don't take any) you'd still have the 1% who take 20% of all flights. 

Fundamentally we need big government shifts to tackle climate and I think the way you build consent for that isn't saying you can't do this, you can't do that etc. Its to focus on how a green society can actually improve the lives of the majority with things like free public services etc. 

Btw its absolutely great the steps you're taking.

Cheers man, it's just that we all know, that unless it was a Green government, none of our major parties will flex more than the wind blows them, so we have to puff a little. At the very least, if you can put potential futility out of your mind, it makes me feel a little bit better seemingly pissing into the wind and not that much goes on my shoes, I find ?

[Mardy]

God preserve us from hippy middle class twats who sneer at you for using a plastic bag but drag around four (usually ludicrously named) kids behind them. 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

 

[Superscally]

1 minute ago, Scott129 said:

I think this is a good example. You have to create an environment whrre cars aren't necessary e.g. Because there is good quality cheap/free public transport. We can't expect everyone to be able to afford to just unilaterally give up a car without that in the hope that something good will follow ftom that. 

Following on from Mardys point, you can change your car to start with. I'd love a Tiguan. Things of beauty they are. Nice and big, but at the end of the day, I got a blue motion petrol Polo and you know what, I haven't dropped dead yet. I think the best we can do is make small changes one by one, rather than carry on regardless and it could snowball from there.

[Mardy]

2 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

I think this is a good example. You have to create an environment whrre cars aren't necessary e.g. Because there is good quality cheap/free public transport. We can't expect everyone to be able to afford to just unilaterally give up a car without that in the hope that something good will follow ftom that. 

You can put all the incentives out there, i live in a city with cheap, reliable, phenomenal public transport, but it doesn’t matter - everybody aspires to own a car, because psychologically it represents freedom and success. Like i say, no-one (and i absolutely include myself in that) is ready to make genuine sacrifices that make daily life tougher.

[Mardy]

Sorry gang, i’m just pretty gloomy on this. The individual will, the collective mindset and the political urgency just isn’t there in any meaningful way. There are some shining individual acts, but the truth is, most people won’t sacrifice their lifestyle for this until it’s too late. And i’m not really sure I can blame them.

right, i’m going to stop pissing on everyone’s bonfires and go and have a sandwich. 

[maelzoid]

1 minute ago, Mardy said:

You can put all the incentives out there, i live in a city with cheap, reliable, phenomenal public transport, but it doesn’t matter - everybody aspires to own a car, because psychologically it represents freedom and success. Like i say, no-one (and i absolutely include myself in that) is ready to make genuine sacrifices that make daily life tougher.

I have been car-free for nearly twelve years. It's a lot easier than you might imagine. Cheaper too. Once you're used to it, the sacrifices are not that great. I think the major one is limiting my job-seeking to only jobs I can reach on public transport / foot / bike.

So, not everybody aspires to own a car. I actually aspire to not own one ever again.

[Winslow Leach]

What if forced sterilisation, but woke?

[Mardy]

2 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

I have been car-free for nearly twelve years. It's a lot easier than you might imagine. Cheaper too. Once you're used to it, the sacrifices are not that great. I think the major one is limiting my job-seeking to only jobs I can reach on public transport / foot / bike.

So, not everybody aspires to own a car. I actually aspire to not own one ever again.

Like you, I don’t drive, but we’re hardly representative. Especially where i live, and in the other BRICS countries too. The UK is pretty insignificant in all this. However, What’s the biggest example of civil disobedience in the UK in the last 20 years? Protests at the price of fuel. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_protests_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

 

[Mardy]

Sorry. Sandwich. Now. Promise.

[Superscally]

13 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Sorry gang, i’m just pretty gloomy on this. The individual will, the collective mindset and the political urgency just isn’t there in any meaningful way. There are some shining individual acts, but the truth is, most people won’t sacrifice their lifestyle for this until it’s too late. And i’m not really sure I can blame them.

right, i’m going to stop pissing on everyone’s bonfires and go and have a sandwich. 

Keep the faith man. ?

 

11 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

I have been car-free for nearly twelve years. It's a lot easier than you might imagine. Cheaper too. Once you're used to it, the sacrifices are not that great. I think the major one is limiting my job-seeking to only jobs I can reach on public transport / foot / bike.

So, not everybody aspires to own a car. I actually aspire to not own one ever again.

Boom. Our next step is getting to one as a family! ?

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Sorry. Sandwich. Now. Promise.

I hope its not wrapped in Plastic  

[Sweet_pea]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I hope its not wrapped in Plastic  

And is plant based

[clarkete]

45 minutes ago, Mardy said:

right, i’m going to stop pissing on everyone’s bonfires and go and have a sandwich. 

...double big mac at the drive through with my 6 kids in our Subaru Forester 2 litre *

*It produced the highest amount of nox according to a study by Which

[Scott129]

1 hour ago, Mardy said:

right, i’m going to stop pissing on everyone’s bonfires and go and have a sandwich. 

You should probably have a snickers

[Superscally]

2 hours ago, maelzoid said:

Just had a quick look on Atmosfair.

My brother lives in South France so to visit him I almost always fly. That return trip costs just €11 to offset. I feel there really is no excuse not to. Although I am dabbling with ferry / train next time even though it will take way longer and cost more.

The ideal system would be that regulations force all air passengers to pay to offset as a tax, and yes that would mean that air travel would become inaccessible to some who currently enjoy it. But until that happens, I am happy that we can make the choice to do so personally.

I like the way you work it. ?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

2 hours ago, Scott129 said:

You should probably have a snickers

It's a Marathon bar atm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/snickers-bar-to-return-to-its-old-marathon-name-to-mark-30-years-11809835

[Crazyfool01]

2 hours ago, Scott129 said:

You should probably have a snickers

twixes are the way to go round here  

[maelzoid]

4 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

It's a Marathon bar atm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/snickers-bar-to-return-to-its-old-marathon-name-to-mark-30-years-11809835

Can we have Opal Fruits too?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

6 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

Can we have Opal Fruits too?

No. That would cause anarchy.